M38a1 footman loops

wilfreeman · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: M38a1 footman loops

OK, so what size are the main footman loops supposed to be - the ones on the side and top ridge of the body. My screw spacing is 2 1/8", but I have a couple of loops that look like 1 1/8" and a couple that look like 1". Does that mean they are all probably 1"? I ordered 6 - 1" ones (don't remember from where) a few years ago, but the hole spacing is off.
_________________
Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)

wesk · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject:

The standard is 2"

_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

wilfreeman · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:02 pm Post subject:

It looks like "F" is 2 1/8" - the measurement between hole centers. The 2" ones look like they are the measurement from the ridge of the body. This is consistent with the measurement I had. Upon further searching for some replacements, I see that most of the ones that have 2 1/8" centers are consistent with 1" footman loops (instead of 1 1/8" like I measured) - you just have to make sure you have the correct hole centers. Now I guess I will post a want ad.

Thanks for the pic Wes - you always have something (or know where it is) pertaining to the question asked!
_________________
Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)

wesk · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:29 pm Post subject:

The F measurement is from the top door opening soft top rodwork hole to that particular footman loop hole on top.

You will find 27 footman loops listed in the M38 ORD 9.
Page 294 Grp 1803.1 Tailgate 4 ea 7697591
Page 295 Grp 1804.1 Tub 18 ea 7697591
Page 306 Grp 1808 Axe & Shovel 4 ea 7697591
Page 324 Grp 2101 Grill (Guard) 1 ea 7697591
Note: all are for 1" strap and all are the same part number and are 2" on bolt hole centers.
Note: the windshield loop is not listed because it is a welded on part of the windshield frame assembly.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

wilfreeman · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:48 pm Post subject:

Man, I didn't realize there were so many on a jeep!
_________________
Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)

RHarris · Member Joined: Nov 23, 2009 Posts: 40

I have a 1953 M38a1 and it does not have the loops on the side like the illustration shows. Did these come later? Mine has no holes or welded places where these are placed? Robert

wesk · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:29 am Post subject:

The early A1's had them on the very top flat edge. The later A1's moved them to the side and down bout 2".

Early A!

WeeBee Webbing Photo -Later A1 after MD63252 with the added row of footman loops further down the side on the small ledge. Total 7697591 loops used after this serial was 18.

The A1 used the same ORD# 7697591 loops as the M38 for the screw on 1" strap use.

It had a 1 1/2" strap loop at the rear panel for the gas can 8328423 and the welded type loops for the shovel and windshield.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

wilfreeman · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:21 am Post subject:

Well crap! Mine are all about 2" down on the side like the M38 - (MD 75910).

My parts Jeep is the same. I'll look again (and feel), but I don't remember feeling any places that were welded up (or filled in).
_________________
Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)

STXM38A1 · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:36 am Post subject:

Snooping around for info on A1 footman loops sometime back I found this reference.
Ordnance Part # 7697591 is now assigned NSN 5340-00-653-7275
http://www.wbparts.com/rfq/5340-00-653-7275.html

I'll have to take a look to be sure, but I think my A1 had them on the top the wheelhouse edge (like picture for early A1) and then on the side an inch or two down from the ledge (but not on the ledge). The lower ones are tack welded on and I assume were a "post-military" addition.
_________________
Warren
M38A1 12/54 MD 78343

PHOTO ALBUM:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album33&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

wilfreeman · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:45 am Post subject:

wilfreeman · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:10 am Post subject:

Yep, the info I was looking for. 1" - 2 1/8" center to center. Now to figure out how many I need.

Mine (on the side of the body) are held with screws. That doesn't mean anything either though.

Wes, the picture that you have (that you've posted many times) showing the axe on the wheel well. Is the strap holding the axe going to a footman on the top edge?

Does anybody out there, that has a top installed, have a pic that they can share of the side curtain footman loops?
_________________
Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)

wesk · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject:

When the Army installed the canvas tops new in the field they often added the loops on the side. If you look at any photos of the tops installed on the A1 getting the side curtain straps up to the top mounted loops was a PITA and didn't taughten the top sides at all.

The illustrations at the front of TM 9-804A the 1952 M38 Operation and Maintenance manual are very good.

Here's a poor fitting example without the side mounted loops.

Here you can see the lower small ledge loops have been moved down a wee bit from the ledge and face outward now.

Here's anothe with the small ledge loops move down a bit and facing outward.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

wesk · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject:

Pioneer tools on the A1?

When you are looking for photo references try perusing the huge album I have on this web site on your own before asking for more photos on the posts.
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=1
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

wilfreeman · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject:

Yeah, that top does look pretty crappy! I saw one 'a1 in a member album here that had the loops right on the edge of the ledge - pointing out at a 45deg angle.

I've looked through your album more than a few times - almost always something that you are looking for there. I was just wondering how everyone here has their tops attached - loops on the top, on the ledge, on the side, or a combination. I wasn't planning on changing mine since it is already painted, but will probably put the top ones back on since it was drilled for them at one time

That brings me to the axe picture - I remembered seeing it and the strap running across, but didn't remember where it attached (the strap). I see now that it is there to secure other equipment or the side curtains or something - not the axe (the axe has its own). So those loops will come in handy if I put them back on.
_________________
Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)

wesk · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject:

That view is in my photo library also.

_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php


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