Someone has been lying to you. The Army painted a lot of vehicle with gloss finish. Most were MP vehicles and VIP vehicles. Also most non-tactical vehicles carried gloss finishes as well. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Mar 05, 2008 Posts: 78 Location: Berlin Germany
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:13 am Post subject:
An other reason for glossy tactical Vehicles is parade exerciseing.
To make the parade vehicles glossy, they prepared the vehicles with babyoil.
Parade at Mc Nair Bks. ( Gator Farm)
During the Berlin crisis the 2nd and 3rd Battle Groups were equipped with 5 extra tanks each. Those tanks were parked at Andrews & McNair Bks. motor pools. In that era the Berlin Brigade has all together -32- heavy battle tanks.
another example for the variations of M38A1´s in use
Note the stars and the jerry can´s.
In front, a 287th MP Co. Ford 17m P3 ( called "Badewanne) aka Bathtub
In the rear a VW beetle from the Berliner Police.
@ Wes,
I am a citizen of Berlin.
I was borne in the former American sector of Berlin in 1968.
My first car I ever bougth was a Willys M38 in 1985.
As a child in the 70s , my parents took me and my sister often to the Wansee (lake)
On the way to the lake, we have to drive past the motorpools of Mc Nair Bks. where all that green trucks where parked.
I know that I will get a Jeep. And yes, when I was seventeen years old, I got my first Jeep. Unrestored, not complete but the car I want to have all the time.
I restored the Jeep and got an other one.
So I began to collect Vehicles, uniforms and equippment of the U.S. Army.
My wife and I support Exhibitions and try to keep this part of history for the future.
This is me and my first Jeep ( 46652 DOD 12/ 51)
Time is fleeting
Thats me and my Jeep last year. The Jeep looks better years after.
But the uniform still fits.
At a visit at the 287th MP Co. at Andrews Bks in 1991, I had the great honor to drive a round with one of the provost Marshal´s M151
The Berlin Brigade keeps those two MUTT´s for parade and ceremonie use until 1994.
My "Big Jim"
One of our exhibitions at Mc Nair Bks.
once again Mc Nair
Vehicle display
My latest project was this M170
You can see on the bumper markings, the Berlin Brigade is present those days in Berlin.
Joined: Nov 04, 2009 Posts: 29 Location: Germany, near Göttingen
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:30 am Post subject:
Wow, that was a lot of new-to-me information and pictures - thanks!
I have two 1953 MD projects and one of them might become one of those Berlin Jeeps.
Frank, can you tell me a bit more about the paint you have used on the M38 and the M170? (here in Europe there seem to be no dealer selling the Gillespie paint).
And as you are a German M170 owner, do you know the fate of the M170 once owned by Kuno Noerr from the Schwarzwald in the 1990s?
Joined: Jul 18, 2008 Posts: 645 Location: Melrose, MA and Santa Fe, NM
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:23 am Post subject:
That's great! Looking good in all things. I know what you mean about time fleeting. We're of the same age and I'm amazed at how fast time has passed. Great job restoring those vehicles. I'm curious, do you see many WWII jeeps and vehicles? I've heard they're getting scarce over there.
Thanks for the pics. I posted some a year or so ago in my gallery from the St Patty's Day parade in South Boston a couple years ago.
Thanks again for your truly great contributions to the hobby and the preservation of a period in history that is not discussed enough today.
I am always amazed at the huge efforts Europeans put into the restoration of American vehicles and the superb quality of their products! _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Apr 08, 2009 Posts: 249 Location: Mariposa, Ca.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:00 pm Post subject:
Wes...Did the Army paint those after they were deployed or did the Jeeps get painted the gloss at the factory? And I guess some of the venders are the offenders (pun intended). If gloss paint was maybe more available or requested by restorers then it might be more common knowledge?
When I was trying to find out if my USMC M38A1 was a gloss paint, I was told they did not do that except at the base commanders request. I finally bought semi-gloss, as that is all I could find anyway, and then found out that if I added hardener, it turned it to a gloss finish that was also a little darker. So then I painted the rig without hardener and have the semi-gloss. It probably should be gloss and I am now having to make the decision whether to repaint with hardener. #@$%@, this restoration stuff can be confusing.
BTW, John at Midwest Military recently informed me that the USMC painted in gloss during WWII all the way up to and including my year. Not all of them, but they did spec out gloss at different times. Does that sound like what you have learned thru the years?
Semi-gloss in the post WWII era up though the 60's was the norm and what the factory applied. All the shiney MB's, GPW's, M38's, M38A1' s, M170's, M151's and M422's were field painted or in many cases just mistaken for gloss because they had been oiled up for a big show or parade. Even the USAF strata blue applied at Willys was semi-gloss as was the Navy gray.
The options for a factory restorer are very limited. Semi-gloss post war.
The rest of the period restorers have many options. Personally, if the jeep is to be a driver and spend most of it's life outdoors then I would use a modern gloss finish that really stands up to the sun and the weather. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Mar 05, 2008 Posts: 78 Location: Berlin Germany
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:04 am Post subject:
Thank you for your nice commantaries.
@ Oliver,
the question of paint is a very special question.
I have used 2 component RAL 6022 ( Braunoliv) in 50% mat, what my paint dealer mixed for me from MIPA paints.
The next project I will do, will becomes OD 24087 semigloss from Jörgs Miliärlacke shop, because the RAL code paint will comes only even close to the original paint specs.
The question of the disposition of Kunos M170 Ambulance I don´t know.
Was this the M170 from Kuno at Kelly´s heroes meeting ?
@ all,
A little more off topic, sorry but it happend in Berlin too.
It was 1994 when the Berlin Brigade was deactivated by President Clinton.
There was a fare well parade with all remaining core personal held in Steglitz.
The commanding officer of the Berlin Brigade was Col. Jimmy Banks.
The first Vehicle he has to operate in the Army was a Willys M38.
He don´t trust me, that my M38 has the original engine in it.
I have to keep running the engine because the batterys are low and I dont want to blame me in the forthcoming parade.
So he want´s to see the engine, open´s the hood and was exited.
"It puurs like a kitten" he states.
No future without history
An old vintage Jeep is cool, not like the Humvee´s this time.
U.S. Army Transportation in action.
Loading my Dodge for a transfer to an exhibition at the America House
Those moments never come back.
When the americans leave Berlin, this city will be not the same.
Joined: Nov 04, 2009 Posts: 29 Location: Germany, near Göttingen
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:35 pm Post subject:
Yes, that is (or was?) Kunos M170. I lost contact with him in the mid-1990, his M38 with MB body was my first Jeep.
As far as I remember the story of the recovery of the RIAS (radio station in West-Berlin) WC54 and other ancient vehicles was once featured in "Wheels and Tracks".
Btw, I don´t fit anymore in the uniform I was wearing in the 1990s
My Uncle served in Berlin US Army, 1950-1958? McNair Barracks. Sadly, he just passed in December, and would have loved to seen them. All he ever talked about of his 30+ yrs in the Army, was Berlin. Couldn't ever get anything out from him about 3 tours on Vietnam.
My father served at Templehof 1958-1959 as a radar tech for the USAF and met my mother there.. _________________ David M.
08/1953 M38A1
Serial #56535
"The Green Goat"
Joined: Jun 02, 2010 Posts: 1 Location: Sint Maarten, the Netherlands
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:12 pm Post subject:
Hello all, I own a ’52 (June) M38A1 and I live in the Netherlands. Since NEKAF’s were used by our army and are more common here (sure you heard about them) M38A1’s are quiet rare. How it ended up here I don’t know but it was standing in a barn for 30 years before I bought it 4 years ago. It took me four years to get it decent and running, I have been driving it since one month, great fun!
I used the information from this topic to give my Jeep it's registration. Growing up during the cold war influenced that as well.
Front license plates and direction lights are mandatory in this country. The direction lights on my jeep were already there and so I left them there. On the photo’s of the Berlin Jeeps I can see direction lights on the front fenders, does anybody have more details about them ?
@Frank, I hope we can make a lineup one day with our cars.
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