What is my M38's actual serial number?

[floridajack]

I have what was sold to me as a 1951 M38. A 2006 New Hampshire registration certificate lists the "Vehicle Identification Number" as Z587VT. The black data plate on the dash has "YR. MFD. 1950" and "MODEL M-38" embossed on it. The "MFR. SER. NO." field is NOT engraved with a number. "MFR. PART NO. 657116" is under "MFR. SER. NO." I found a very worn (as if it was sandpapered) aluminum(?) plate screwed to the right rear fender front which has a faint, but readable, serial number of MC 65172, which suggests a summer 1952 manufacture date. I am confused.

[Bill_F]

Looks like the state of NH assigned it a vin number at some point. The number on your plate is probably the original vin number.

[wesk]

The title and registration paperwork will use whatever number is agreed upon by the owner and the state. The number you have is obviously a derived number either issued by the state or submitted by the owner. At this point the legal serial number for your M38 is the one on the title.

The blank dash serial plate is exactly that. A spare blank plate purchased and installed by a previous owner. The Sep to Dec 1950 tags had the year already permanently on the tag and only the actual serial number and inspector stamp were engraved on the plate. The sam goes for the Jan 1951 through April 1951 plates which also only had the year already permanently on the plates. The Hand stamped date (MO/YR) of production didn't start until Apr 1951.

The patent plate is a correct type plate and were installed in all Willys & Kaiser built jeeps. In all likelihood that number MC65172 is at least the true serial number for your tub.

Unlike WWII Jeeps that had a copy of the dash serial number stamped on the frame rail the post WWII military jeeps do not. To make matters worse both the dash serial plate and the right rear wheel house patent plate are screwed on making removal and switching a very simple task. To aggravate this situation further most major depot overhaul facilities would separate the tub from the frame during the rebuild process and usually no attempt was made to get the matching tub and frame back together again at the end of the rebuild assembly line.

For these reasons it is absolutely impossible for anyone to guarantee absolutely that their jeep and their two serial plates are original to each other. We all want to believe they are but a reasonable doubt level is as far as we can go to establish their authenticity.

Now back to your problem. The assigned serial # Z587VT looks to me like it may have been assigned by Vermont. Later when the title was transferred to NH they simply use the same assigned number. Usually when a state DMV assigns a number they or a state cop install a plate on the jeep somewhere with that number. For you to legally retain ownership you will have to have that number displayed on the jeep and your name will have to be on the new title.

States vary on how they treat attempts by an owner to change or correct vehicle serial numbers. You should first approach the DMV with a hypothetical situation not ID'ing your jeep specifically and ask what can be done to change a Vermont or NH assigned serial on a government surplus jeep back to the actual serial number on the jeep's military ID plates? If this can be done without any challenge to your ownership then proceed. Then after you get the paperwork changed you can put a new dash serial plate on with contract number DA-33-019-ORD-630 on it and stamp or engrave 65172 in the serial block and 4-52 in the DOD block.

If not then avoid any confrontation and stamp a small metal tag with Z587VT and place it in a place on the jeep that isn't so obvious IE the firewall. Buy a replacement dash serial plate with contract number DA-33-019-ORD-630 on it and stamp or engrave 65172 in the serial block and 4-52 in the DOD block. Then just let things rest as they are.

Also try to remember when dealing with state DMV's most young counter people today have no idea what a vehicle serial number is. They grew up after 1975 with the VIN number. Vehicles produced after the early 70's came with vin numbers which have a production serial number hidden in them near the end of all the numbers and letters but these folks today only understand the term VIN. Vehicles produced from about 1972 backwards DID NOT HAVE A VIN number. They had a production SERIAL NUMBER. So if you are successful and getting your number changed the next battle with the DMV is explaining this to the counter person so they understand why there are only 2 letter prefix and 5 digits in your serial number and their paperwork requires 11 or more digits. Most will be bright enough to load the necessary amount of zeros to the front of your MC65172.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[spec4don]

Wes that's funny you mention that about the VIN. I had to go round and round with the local DMV when I titled my M-135. He kept telling me it was not the correct VIN it didn't have enough numbers. Luckily the state has a group up at the state DMV that deals with titles as long as you provide enou
gh paper work to prove it never had a title.

The local people also think every MV had a form SF97 when the government sold them back in the 40's 50's and 60's.

Don G.
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Don G.

Eugene, Oregon