Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:48 am Post subject: Been a harsh winter here in Philly
and the M38A1s been in the garage with the snowy, salt laden roads. But it's clearing up, and I'm getting back into it. I'm going for sort of a USMC style, and I know they often put lockers in their rear axles. I am going to put one in. They sometimes put one in the front as well. I have been told that this makes the vehicle almost undriveable on modern roads. Does anyone know if this is the case? I was thinking of putting in a powertrax, which doesn't have the same problems as a straight spool. _________________ 1952 M38A1
Marine core reinforced rear bumper, military transistorized turn signal upgrade, arctic heater, 11" drum brakes, 200L PTO winch, Huffy overdrive, deep water fording kit, RT 68 vehicle mounted radio, Trac Locs front and rear.
www.danhenk.com
Marine contract M38A1's all came with Spicer Powr-Lok front and rear. It does nothing for improving the ride on highways. It only helps get more bite in the mud. If you don't get in the mud and rocks it is a waste of good money. Since I started driving in 1959 I have driven dozens of limited slips and lockers. Their only advantage is in sand, mud, rock crawling and deep snow. On smooth hard wet or slippery surfaces they have a tendency to always push the jeep sideways. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Sep 25, 2011 Posts: 123 Location: Silver Lake Mi.
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:04 pm Post subject:
I have lockers in my off-road Jeep and they work great for that, (off-road). But anytime I run that Jeep on pavement you have to be very careful especially when cornering as lockers don't allow the inner tire to rotate at a different speed which cause it to want to push in the corners. It becomes even worse the more throttle you apply while cornering. Like Wes said there is really no need for a locker in a street driven vehicle. _________________ Dave
53' M38a1, 53' M37, 67' M715, 67' M725, 67' M35a2
http://www.davidallenracing.com/motorpool.htm
Delta Team Decals http://www.deltateamdecals.com/
I have a '52 M38A1 Army (no lockers) and a '62 M38A1 USMC (factory lockers front and back) that are drivers. Both have NDCC tires.
Except for driving at slow speed on dirt roads in loose gravel I can not tell any difference between the two. On dirt roads you can sometimes feel the lockers kick in when in deep gravel but that is about it. Definitely no worries of getting stuck anywhere in either jeep but especially the '62. The '62 is unstoppable the way everything is geared up.
When I realized that I had lockers on the '62 I did some research and found several mentions of lockers on the front and NDCC tires on wet roads not being a great idea at higher speeds.
I drive these jeeps in the environment they were designed and can't speak for how they would handle highway or high speed driving. I would have to agree with everything already said. There are few conditions that will stop 5.38 gearing anyway locker or no lockers.
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:24 pm Post subject:
I have a friend with a transmission shop and the lockers already. I can sell them on eBay, or install them. They are powertrax lock rights, and supposedly they loosen up to let the turning wheels spin faster than the outside wheels. I don't really take the M38A1 out on highways, except maybe once or twice a year. _________________ 1952 M38A1
Marine core reinforced rear bumper, military transistorized turn signal upgrade, arctic heater, 11" drum brakes, 200L PTO winch, Huffy overdrive, deep water fording kit, RT 68 vehicle mounted radio, Trac Locs front and rear.
www.danhenk.com
Well Dan you asked and we answered. They do not behave real well on hard surface streets or highways. Makes no difference what you call them or what brand they are the only difference is limited slips don't behave well on hard surface roads when the road is wet or slippery and Lockers behave badly even when the hard surface road is dry. The end product is a squirrley jeep and shorter life on tires, suspension parts and trannies/transfer and U joints. So it's up to you. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Nov 24, 2010 Posts: 1390 Location: Orem, UT
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:29 am Post subject:
I had a unibody Cherokee that I put lock-rights in F/R axles. It was well mannered and pretty transparent on the dry roads, off road I loved it, it was like a different vehicle. You can get over confident and get in trouble though. Icy patched roads were a bit hairy. In the turns you will hear the locker's teeth pop allowing the outer wheel to of run ahead, it's not loud but it's there. As you are exiting a turn and the inner wheel catches up to match the speed of the outer wheel and the axles lock back together, sometimes you can get a bump from the rear end like it wants to steer the rear end around. That will be more of a concern on these short wheel based vehicles. For the front, if you have lockout hubs, you won't even notice it's there on the roads. If no lockouts, then it will pop in the turns but it shouldn't be a problem when you are in 2WD as there won't be power to the unit.
The nice thing about those type of lockers is they can be installed without having to set up gears since they just replace the guts of the carrier.
You need to ask yourself though, what do you intend to do with my vehicle and if it's worth your time and money. _________________ Brett
'51 M38
PHOTO DIARY OF MY BUILD
Joined: Jul 18, 2008 Posts: 643 Location: Melrose, MA and Santa Fe, NM
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:58 am Post subject:
So, not to muddle things further but thought I would add my limited experience. I've driven HMMWV's off road plenty in the US and overseas and they work great - depending on the conditions. I've driven a number of US SUVs off road, all with varying degrees of success based on their characteristics. And I now have a stock 2008 Land Rover LR3 and follow those folks closely for their pointers. Much has been discussed about lockers for the rear diff on Land Rovers, Range Rovers, etc. and the general consensus is that the stock set ups work just fine for most situations. Unless you're seriously into off-roading, rock crawling, mudding, etc, etc. the stock set ups are more than sufficient. And I've put a few non-4WD vehicles into places they should never go and come out without a problem.
Point being, these jeeps were set up a certain way for a reason. Unless you're primary use and purpose of your M38A1 is serious off-rading - which would be the crap out of a 60 year old jeep - don't put them on.
I've followed your posts with interest and it seems you do drive it regularly on paved roads, albeit not highway all the time. It probably would be counter-productive for you to add them, unless you just like the idea and having the gadgets on your jeep. If it was me and I had the lockers I would sell them and put the money into my "Jeep Repair" fund. Or get a jeep/SUV to turn into a tricked out off-roader. But here in the Northeast we don't have a lot of easily accessible off road trails like are available out West.
Anyway, just my comments, take them for what they're worth to you. I like to have all my vehicles be able to do just about anything when I want them to, like carrying a firearm and never needing to use it. Just in case. But there is a point beyond which doesn't make sense. I don't carry tons of ammo or an arsenal because it's overkill. I don't have lockers on my axles because I don't need them and wouldn't have any use benefit.
Just my comments on your question.
Joined: Aug 31, 2010 Posts: 1744 Location: SO IDAHO
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:06 am Post subject:
My M-38 is Spicer Powr-Loc equipped. With NDCC's it behaves poorly on
the above mentioned wet/slick/hard surfaces. I switched to the STA
Super Traxion tires and now have more control. And yes, disengaged
locking hubs on the front axle are a big + on pavement.
I will admit, tho, the Powr-Locs are a blast offroad _________________ keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject:
What would the difference between Powr-Loc and Powertrax Lock Right lockers be?
This isn't my only daily driver, I bought (and ended up heavily modifying) an Isuzu 4x4 for the long trips and snowy months. I actually bicycle most nice weather days to the shop. The M38A1 has become my sort of special project, not my daily necessity.
Besides, if there's ever an apocalypse, the more capable the vehicle the better! Ha! _________________ 1952 M38A1
Marine core reinforced rear bumper, military transistorized turn signal upgrade, arctic heater, 11" drum brakes, 200L PTO winch, Huffy overdrive, deep water fording kit, RT 68 vehicle mounted radio, Trac Locs front and rear.
www.danhenk.com
The only thing I ever read about Powr-Loc's is that for some reason they just work better on the M38A1's. How or why I have no idea but there must be a valid engineering based reason that has been lost over the years. I guess it is like winches, heaters and other vintage parts on vehicles that have not been measurably improved upon.
I have seen vehicles bought just to get the winch off the front with the vehicle being scrapped as the winch was noted as being a perfect fit for some 4 x 4's
If you can find Goodyear Hi-Miler tires 6,6.5, 7.5 x 16" with the mud and snow tread there are people who will pay hundreds for a single tire. They were original equipment for some vehicles, are no longer available (in the USA) and nothing is currently available that really works as well as they did.
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