Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2005 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:11 pm Post subject: Mongrel M38 in Dorchester County SC
Time to start a project thread and introduce myself. First off I want to say THANKS! for this forum and the great folks that run it and everyone sharing the knowledge and experience. I’m convinced I couldn’t do this without you. Thank You!
A little about me. I’m a rookie, first time jeep owner, 60 years old, retired Marine mustang (1972-2001) now fifteen years into the end of a second career. Always loved these old jeeps since I was a kid and my Dad (Army, Infantry mustang 1946-1968) took me and my brother for a ride in one. Researched, searched, found, and bought this M38 last August as a bucket list thing (tons better than a red convertible!), the wife is ok with it although my teenage daughters would’ve liked the red convertible better, and I expect this old M38 to help keep my old brain housing group sharp for as long as the Lord is willing and the creek don’t rise. I have a decent set of common tools, but nothing as skilled as a sheet metal break or a welder. I did avionics maintenance in the Corps so I have more electrical than auto mechanical experience. Last time I saw breaker points and a carb was when I was 16 and bought my first car. I completely understand the importance of good TM’s (the first thing I bought before the jeep, including the Willys Universal Manual and Ryan’s Reference Guide). I have a fair share of good common sense and agree with Dirty Harry’s point of view: a man’s GOT to know his limitations (Magnum Force, 1973). That, and patience, it’s better in the long run to do it right the first time.
A little about this M38. Jeep salad I think is the term? Bought it from a man on a Bill of Sale (no titles older than 1963 in Georgia). It didn’t have the original dash plated serial number, and the Willys serial plate on the passenger fender was original -- but for an M38A1, serial number MD 63861. The man told me he got the tub out of Pennsylvania because the original was shot and that’s the plate that was on it so he registered it that way. After I explained it to them, SCDMV ignored the MD serial number and issued me a VIN for a SC title. Long story short, the P.O. told me he didn’t realize the MD serial number couldn’t be right for an M38, and after going over the jeep, I found it to be (in my limited experience) otherwise substantially correct for an M38, the motor runs (not well, more on that later), trans pops out of 2nd, has good brakes, and important to me, he did a frame up build on it, rust busted, blasted to bare metal, decent paint, all the heavy lifting that would be difficult to do in my home garage. It’s all there, just needs careful inspection and some TLC. I’m willing to accept it and will learn to straighten it out over time ---it’s part of the pleasure in this sport. Nobody told me owning a 60-year-old jeep would be cheap so I enter it with eyes wide open. What rapidly became obvious to me was that the P.O. must not have had a M38 TM in sight when he assembled it. Over the past few months I’ve been studying the manuals and this forum and have 4+ pages of discrepancies I’ve been slowly clearing. Replacing wrong fasteners, inspecting, measuring, using a torque wrench. I sometimes doubt and ask myself why would the previous owner put this much effort into an old M38 but not put a clutch pedal return spring on it? Why would he use allen-head screws on footman loops? Rivet a new set of data plates on the wrong side of the master plate? A ton of stuff like that. I like to think that it wasn’t to con anybody, but rather that the jeep is just that versatile. My objective is to have as nearly complete and original as possible “mongrel” M38 that lost its pedigree somewhere along the way through no fault of its own --- so I can go to the range in style on a Saturday morning or as another forum member said so eloquently….go for geezer coffee. It’ll stay 12v for a while, but I already ditched the Solex carb and aftermarket fuel pump for true M38 parts. Cleaned out the fuel tank, working on restoring fuel and vent lines now. Next is the manifold with a stuck open heat riser and blown gasket. Straighten out the crankcase pan flange for a fresh gasket. Do a complete Lube Order. The list goes on and on---more to follow.
Did I say thanks? I really depend on your expertise. Great stuff.
Regards to all,
Ron
p.s., I think I'm going to bumper mark the mongrel with numbers from my Dad's unit while he was in North Korea where he took a battlefield commission in 1951 --- 3rd Infantry Division, 15th Infantry Regiment. Likely no M38's there at that time. For a hood number I'm thinking I'll use the last six digits of my SCDMV VIN and put a "20" in front of it. Would that be kosher? _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Last edited by RonD2 on Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2005 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:46 am Post subject:
So, I pulled the manifold after I discovered the heat riser jammed and its counterweight and spring missing. It’s jammed in the “open” position (as if a cold motor all the time). Then I discovered the blown gasket on the <intake> ....<edited exhaust> part of the manifold. A flat edge on the manifold says it’s out of the .010 tolerance, and I finally found a local machine shop to (hopefully) square it away for me, including installing a new heat riser rebuild kit. Should have it back in a week or two. I think I’m clearing up another large reason or three that the motor was starting very hard and running like crap for only minutes…….(besides crud in the tank and the Solex carb).
This manifold was on the block using two bolts in the far left (front, #1 piston) and right (rear, #4 piston) positions. The middle 5 had studs with nuts (but not lock nuts).
I’ve read a lot in the forums about the two “special washers” (cone on one side, flat on the other) used where the intake and exhaust flanges mate to the block--- wow, the discussions about which side of the washer goes where are entertaining. And the issue remains about as clear as mud to me (NOT resurrecting it here!). Anyway, I finally came across some discussion that Willys changed to a regular flat washer at some point. I can’t find any TM change to that effect, and these “special washers” appear to be made of unobtainium, so would it be ok to use two heavy flat washers in place of the two cone washers?
I also came across more than a little discussion about brass lock nuts (that can only be used once, kind of hard to find, aren’t cheap) and that some folks use regular all steel top lock nuts. As I’m not making a museum piece and want a mechanically sound and reasonably correct M38, I’m thinking this is the way to go. Am I off the mark?
I read and re-read the TM’s before pulling the manifold. You should’ve seen the look on my face when coolant started shooting out of the front bolt (stud) hole when I loosened it……ok, ok, so EVERYBODY knows that it goes into the water jacket ---- and now so do I!
I bought the proper stud kit and am now figuring my odds on pulling the old ones with no sweat. Soaking them in PB Blaster now but may order some of that Mouse Milk (I don’t want to know who’s milking the mice). The top center stud looks the riskiest to me, and the #1 hole where the bolt was seems short to me (piece of a broken stud sunk in it?) Is that hole supposed to go clean through to the water jacket?
More to follow. Thanks! _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Last edited by RonD2 on Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
Joined: May 30, 2014 Posts: 3460 Location: Texas Hill Country
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:38 pm Post subject:
It's scary how clean and nice that engine block and valve cover
look and all the while that head gasket is blowing like crazy.
Babaloo in his infinite wisdom, decided the valve cover on
my L head needed to be put back on the other way. I'd like to
swap ends but have no desire at this point to try and remove
the manifold. ( I broke off a brass fitting in the water pump
trying to install the correct bypass fitting and hose).
Glad you found a local to machine the manifold.
With those gray canvas seat covers have you given thought to
doing a USN jeep?
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2005 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject:
Yep, got my fingers crossed that I don't have to get too far into this motor, at least for awhile anyway. Good, bad, or ugly, it's supposed to be a fresh rebuild. It sounded good the little I had it running so far. Fixing the entire fuel chain comes first...
Nope, none of those haze grey and underway USN jeeps in my future. It's hard to see in the photo but the seat covers are more green-blue (?) than grey. And I'm a Marine so I think I'll keep it Army 24087 with Army markings. When folks ask me why I'm going to tell them I stole it. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2005 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:21 am Post subject:
Ok, ok, I get it. Post technical questions in the technical forum as instructed. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
These project threads are for folks interested in following your progress on your jeep. When you have a technical question you'll get a much larger audience on the appropriate tech board. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2005 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:11 pm Post subject:
Hope to get the refurbished manifold back from the machine shop this coming week. Plane the mating surfaces, install new gasket, and rebuild the heat riser with a new kit.
Ordered and got a new stud kit, brass lock nuts, and the two "special" cone washers from Brent Mullins.
Successfully pulled 6 of the 7 old studs (2 were bolts). The top center stud (that looked the riskiest to me) was --- it snapped off flush with the block this afternoon, even after soaking for a week and a couple of great doses of CRC Freeze-Off. I could've sworn I saw it start to turn (using stud remover). Rats! Going to order me the correct size left hand drill bit tomorrow....
More to follow. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2005 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:14 pm Post subject:
Turns out the exhaust manifold is cracked. Machinist says it's not adviseable to repair. Will see about a photo after I recover it. Ordered a new (not NOS) manifold, complete with heat riser. Found the proper brass locknuts and the 2 special cone washers. More to follow. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2005 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:57 pm Post subject:
Some photos of old and new exhaust manifolds. What a difference (not even bolted up yet!). I think the old cracked manifold is pretty much shot all the way around, but could be mistaken. If anybody wants it please let me know.
Larger photos in my album.
Installing a 220v welder receptacle in the garage now. Experienced neighbor kind enough to do the weld a nut on top of the busted stud honors for me, so I learn something without mangling it right out the gate.
_________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2005 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:49 am Post subject:
After some interruptions for life and with some help from a friend, I finally got that dad-blasted busted center stud drilled out. The threads cleaned up well. Whew! Feeling great! So I go to install the mated and machined manifolds with my new stud kit, new brass nuts, new special washers, and my trusty torque wrench --- and suddenly I'm being taught patience again.
The 5 middle studs in the stud kit I bought (guaranteed to be "correct" of course!) are the proper length but the 2 outboard "long" studs are too short. The fine thread end on these studs are 1-inch and so are the exhaust manifold flanges. That's what I get for not inspecting things better (measure twice, cut once). I need another 1/2-inch length to get the nuts on. How hard can it be to find some? So I'm off to every local autoparts store and others --- with no joy in sight. Plenty of 3-inch (O.A.L.) around but no 2-1/2 inchers. Not interested in using a hacksaw.
Same for the internet, plenty of 3-inchers around. Finally find them at B&D Cold Headed Products http://www.bdcoldheadedproducts.com/ part number BD1220. Phosphated Grade 8, 1-1/2 inches on the fine side, 2-1/2 inches O.A.L.. Perfect. Call them. No stock.
The search continues.......
Not quite sure how this happend (besides my rookie ignorance). I measured my unserviceable exhaust manifold, which I believe is an original Willys part, and it also has 1-inch thick flanges on the outboard ends. Is it just the vendor selling a kit with short studs? Guess I'll ponder that later. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2005 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:03 pm Post subject:
Brought this baby home today. I've been looking for more than a year now --- finally got lucky with a great gentleman of this sport. More good stuff to learn!
_________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
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