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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - M-38A1 Steering Box Question...
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M-38A1 Steering Box Question...

 
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OKCM38CDN
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Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 530
Location: Del City, OK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:41 pm    Post subject: M-38A1 Steering Box Question... Reply with quote

I am in the process of tearing the steering box apart for my M-38A1, I have it down to the box itself and the steering shaft.

Looking at SNL 758, Figure 14-2 Item C - Adapter RG-402141 is pressed into the bottom of the box... This is the part that holds the horn Switch in the Steering box.

Does anyone know if this is the case for sure... I so not want to go banging on it too hard and destroy something that should come out easily...

Thanks in advance...
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Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 201001205
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
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Xamon
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Posts: 592
Location: South East Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you downloaded the ross steering gear maintenance manual from this site?
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=68
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Carievale Saskatchewan Canada
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OKCM38CDN
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Joined: Feb 17, 2012
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Location: Del City, OK

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have looked over that and it does not say anything about removing the piece...
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Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 201001205
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
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skyjeep50
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Joined: Feb 20, 2007
Posts: 606
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the tube and bottom flange that allow the horn switch wiring through the steering gear box to the steering column is a press fit. No mechanical attachment other than friction. However, some sealant may have been used to make sure the part doesn't leak oil, so removal may be slightly challenging. Don't use a lot of force - its a fairly delicate part. A little heat may help removal. After cleaning the box up and before reinstalling the tube on my jeeps I used a little Permatex #2.
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1951 M38
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 16365
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only reason for it's removal is damaged threads or it is leaking through it's pressed fit. If you have neither of these problems why risk damaging it or breaking a chunk of cast iron off the bottom of the box. Really not necessary.

If you want to be sure it doesn't leak plug the middle and pour a wee bit of gas into the cast housing.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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OKCM38CDN
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Joined: Feb 17, 2012
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Location: Del City, OK

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was thinking of taking it off as the steering shaft will not come out of the housing... I know it should but it will not come out... Will need to look this one over some more...

The lower bearings and holder do not want to come loose... bearings are fine but holder appears stuck...

Want to get all of that out so I can blast the housing outside to paint...

Thanks
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Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 201001205
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
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4x4M38
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Joined: May 30, 2014
Posts: 3459
Location: Texas Hill Country

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get the mineral spirits and wire brush Fter it Hal!

By the way, PB Blaster is a great degreaser.
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Brian
1950 M38
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wesk
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Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For tough stuff that defies PB Blaster and heat use MOUSE MILK!



http://www.mousemilk.com/
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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OKCM38CDN
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Location: Del City, OK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK guys, I got the Steering gear box all apart, now looking for some parts...

I can find the Cover gasket 8329725 at several dealers... this is the gasket for the side cover...

But per the SNL, I need 2 7412577 these are the gaskets that go before and after the shims on the steering shaft... I pulled 2 off as the manual shows, but I cannot find anyone carrying the gaskets...

Other than making my own any suggestions...

Thanks
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Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 201001205
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
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rgmutchler
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Joined: Sep 28, 2008
Posts: 348
Location: Caldwell, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hal,
I am fixing to start on my steering gear box and have been reading your post. Your problems with finding the gasket caused me to look at it in the diagrams. I found it interesting that the M38A1 takes two 7412577 gaskets while the M38 only took one and that was after serial number 31337. I wonder why the change from apparently no gasket to one gasket to two gaskets. Does it look like oil from the box could migrate up the shaft? I am curious because my serial number on my M38 is 13097. I am curious if I need to consider adding the gaskets since I would guess that the changes came about because of a problem like oil from the box migrating up the shaft.
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R G Mutchler
M274A5
M-38 MC13312
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4x4M38
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Joined: May 30, 2014
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Location: Texas Hill Country

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ralph,
Was there a button change on something on the top end? Seems like I remember something.....

Maybe that one gasket provided a little shimming.

I'm away from my research stuff or I'd look it up.

Brian
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Brian
1950 M38
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wesk
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes the early M38 button is hard and the late M38 & M38A1 button is rubber. The early m38 steering mast was secured with only a clamp to the shaft. The later M38 just like the m38A1 had a more complex shim, gasket ball housing arrangement. The M38 ORD 9 qty on the gasket is incorrect. If you look at the illustration on page 259 there are two gaskets.

To answer the post relevant questions the 2nd gasket is required if you are using shims. It is for deep water fording. If you didn't require any shims you only need one gasket.

The gasket pops up quite often using google 7412577, or 5330-00-741-2577, or 804399. No luck with the Ross Gear PN 033092. Several sites offer specs and dimensions:

Quote:
National Stock Number:
5330-00-741-2577

Federal Supply Class:
5330

National Item Identification Number:
007412577

Description:
GASKET

Detail:
A deformable material which prevents the passage of matter through the joint formed when two faces are joined. It may be metallic or nonmetallic, lubricated or impregnated, solid or hollow cross section. It may be made to any predetermined dimension and shape. Excludes flat disks, items made of felt material and items having joints. For round metal and plastic items with an aperture and a solid rectangular cross section, see WASHER, FLAT; SHIM; BEARING, WASHER, THRUST; and SPACER RING. Excludes DISK, VALVE; SEAL, NONMETALLIC ANGLE; SEAL, NONMETALLIC CHANNEL; SEAL, NONMETALLIC SPECIAL SHAPED SECTION; SHIELDING GASKET, ELECTRONIC; and RING, SEALING JAR.


Manufacturer Information:
7412577 19207 U S ARMY TANK AUTOMOTIVE COMMAND AMSTA-IM-MM
804399 34623 AM GENERAL LLC


Techincal Specification:
APERTURE DIAMETER 1.750 INCHES NOMINAL
BOLT CIRCLE DIAMETER 2.250 INCHES NOMINAL
BOLT HOLE QUANTITY 3
CROSS-SECTIONAL SHAPE STYLE SOLID SINGLE OR COMPOSITION
CROSS-SECTIONAL THICKNESS 0.008 INCHES MINIMUM AND 0.010 INCHES MAXIMUM
HOLE DIAMETER 0.328 INCHES NOMINAL
MATERIAL DOCUMENT AND CLASSIFICATION MIL-G-12803,NO. +3313B MIL SPEC ALL MATERIAL RESPONSES OVERALL
MATERIAL PAPER OVERALL AND GLUE OVERALL
OUTSIDE CORNER RADIUS 0.312 INCHES NOMINAL
SIDE RADIUS FROM GASKET CENTER 1.125 INCHES NOMINAL
OVERALL WIDTH 2.500 INCHES NOMINAL
STYLE DESIGNATOR NON-CIRCULAR


Another option is shown in this fellow's M170 steering gear rebuild page: http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/1608-protect-your-diffs-cheap-axle-insurance/
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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OKCM38CDN
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Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 530
Location: Del City, OK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sent an email to John Bizal and he has the gaskets available... Will be ordering a couple later this week...

Just got done sandblasting the body and paintable portions... need to mask off some parts but will be ready to rebuild after the parts arrive...

Working on a budget makes it tough some times...
_________________
Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 201001205
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
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4x4M38
Member


Joined: May 30, 2014
Posts: 3459
Location: Texas Hill Country

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You got that right!
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Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
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