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Hawkshadow
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Joined: Oct 10, 2012
Posts: 310
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:01 am Post subject: Bellcrank Part ID |
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Is this
The part identified as #7 Seal, Steering bell-crank bracket?
Is it a standard part that comes with the rebuild kits?
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Jordan
M38 CDN
52-30718 |
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southpw
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Joined: Jun 15, 2014
Posts: 268
Location: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Yesit looks like that is the seal you identified..... And no it does not come in rebuild kit.
I boight one seperate on ebay from one of the known dealers mentioned on this sitebut cant recall who it was.
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1952 M38 project
Brad |
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Thunderbird712
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Posts: 189
Location: Lexington Park Maryland (Southern Maryland)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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As far as what you have I cant help with that. However, the seal #7 is actually all rubber. #6 is a small spring that wraps around it to hold it tight. Brent Mullins is the one on Ebay who sells the seal. I just ordered one a little over a month ago. A spring from an old axle seal can be used for #6.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171679100095?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
In sinrisnekaf members photo album (on the first page of members albums) he has a another picture of the seal with the pivot bolt (pg. 2) and another excellent diagram of the spring that goes around it (pg. 3).
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TJ
53 M38A1 (project)
3/28/45 MB factory restoration project |
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4x4M38
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Hawkshadow
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure where the pictured part went to be able to measure - it may have been lost during blasting. I wonder if it was a dual purpose seal and spacer?
Does this seal simply keep contaminants out of the bellcrank and keep the grease in? Or is it also needed in between the bellcrank and the extended lower lip of the braket?
Is the bellcrank with the threaded lower dust cap a standard m38 part? Most of the photos and diagrams that I am finding don't show it.
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Jordan
M38 CDN
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4x4M38
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Hawkshadow
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Brian,
I tightened up the bellcrank and the steering immediately felt tighter with less slack. I went out for a drive and still had 1 instance of the wobble/ shudder after going over a decent bump which persists until you steer back and forth. Is this a sign of worn bellcrank internals needing rebuild?
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Jordan
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4x4M38
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4x4M38
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Location: Texas Hill Country
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:58 am Post subject: |
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The death wobble has been discussed ad infinitum here and
searching just a few posts will give you all of the troubleshooting
points, including the knuckle bearings.
Specifically to the Bellcrank do you have any play in the shaft to
bearing horizontal plane? If you try to wiggle it side to side
does it move at all? There are clearances to check, but if you
have any play by hand with it all tightened up then yes you
probably need new bearings.
Once I rebuilt mine and the drag link and tie rods, it became
apparent the problem I had was with the Pittman shaft
bearings.
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Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php |
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wesk
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Location: Wisconsin
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Hawkshadow
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Posts: 310
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the input. It didn't even register that what I was experiencing was the fabled "death wobble".
At this point the tie rod ends have been replaced, the internals of the steering box have been re-done minus the shaft & worm, and the front axles including king pin bearings are all-new. That leaves confirming the kingpin preload, checking bellcrank wobble, and slack in drag link or pitman. I'll take a read through the TM to check testing for those parts.
When I tightened up the bellcrank I didn't notice any movement but will go over it once more.
Thanks again.
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Jordan
M38 CDN
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4x4M38
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wesk
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Hawkshadow
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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I finally came across the part in question in one of the boxes! The death wobble kept creeping back in over time. I put the part back in at the beginning of the season in June and there hasn't been a single wobble since.
It's hard to tell, but it definitely said National and what looks like a part number of maybe 80351 or something similar...
It doesn't appear to be in the pam, but fits perfectly and makes a huge difference so whoever thought of it was definitely on to something.
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Jordan
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edupras
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Joined: Oct 03, 2014
Posts: 1
Location: Amos, Québec
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Have the exact same part on my M38CND 1952. This seal is on the top side of the bell crank inside a retainer ring that fits over a flange on the bell crank. I could make out the part number once I punched it out. It is a National 50151S oil seal, used to seal for fording from what I could gather. That type of seal is not found in the bell crank rebuild kits I could find.
From what I can make out, the seal and the retainer ring correspond to the part #7 (7375180), page 49, of the exploded view of the bell crank assembly on page 48 of the TM 9-1804B manual.
The dimensions are exactly the same as yours. Mine was warned out so I have to replace it. It is available from a couple of vendors on the net. Could be replaced with a rubber seal with the same dimensions as others have done I guess.
The bell crank to steering bell crank frame bracket spring loaded seal, part #6 (7375177), goes on top of the #7 seal. That particular original part is not available anymore from what I could read. Some have replaced it by a grommet 1 1/8'' ID by 1 11/16'' OD by 1/4'' size (someone posted a picture with the dimensions on one of the bell crank threads). No spring needed.
Thanks for posting the pictures. There a many threads on bell crank rebuilds but I had found none with the pictures I was looking for. Seems there are a couple of different variants of the builds. This one, like mine, has the fording seal and a dust cap screwed on the bottom (missing on my M38CND).
Thanks for the pictures! Helped me a lot making sense of my rebuild puzzle.
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Éric Dupras
M38 1952 CDN sérial F100234 DOD apil 1st 1952
ericdupras@cableamos.com
Amos, Québec, Canada |
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