Joined: May 30, 2014 Posts: 3472 Location: Texas Hill Country
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:33 am Post subject:
Well that’s an M38 hood and windshield, and the door curtain channel and fuel filler say M38, along with the black out drive light. Even has the left bracket for the rifle rack still attached to the windshield.
There are various holes on an M38 tub that easily identify it as M38, as well as a few details not found in repros.
Again if you look inside the frame rails up front they will be boxed in with holes to mount a winch in a factory M38 frame.
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2050 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:43 am Post subject:
4x4M38 wrote:
So far it looks M38.
Agree!
And it looks like hinges on the grill along with headlight guards (M38 features not on CJ-3A).
Maybe all Bubba did to the body was to patch over the cowl battery box?
Hopefully it's got a T90 and D18 in it and the front floor pans aren't hacked up. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Well that’s an M38 hood and windshield, and the door curtain channel and fuel filler say M38, along with the black out drive light. Even has the left bracket for the rifle rack still attached to the windshield.
There are various holes on an M38 tub that easily identify it as M38, as well as a few details not found in repros.
Again if you look inside the frame rails up front they will be boxed in with holes to mount a winch in a factory M38 frame.
So far it looks M38.
Thank you for the reply. I posted a bunch of new pictures. I cant see the inside of the frame rails until I remove the box installed there..but will do shortly.
Any other info from the new photos posted on my original post?
Agree!
And it looks like hinges on the grill along with headlight guards (M38 features not on CJ-3A).
Maybe all Bubba did to the body was to patch over the cowl battery box?
Hopefully it's got a T90 and D18 in it and the front floor pans aren't hacked up.
I keep looking under the dash but cant find any obvious weld lines where they may have covered up the battery hatch by the windshield. its really weird.
The question is, how much diaseembly am i doing to get it running?
my first priority is to get it to run and drive. then start a restoration to something...not sure what....yet.
I cant see the inside of the frame rails until I remove the box installed there..but will do shortly.
Just open your hood and look down at the frame rail on the driver's side. It should be boxed in from the grill to the brake master cylinder as shown below.
Tub is clearly M38. It would be interesting to see which carb you have on that F134.
The wiring is in horrible shape and very poorly routed. I would be careful with that. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Feb 25, 2006 Posts: 345 Location: Wichita, KS
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:00 pm Post subject:
Your first priority should be to get it to stop before you get it running. _________________ 1951 M38
1952 M38
1952 M38A1
1942 Dodge WC-55
1951 M100 trailer
1942 Ben Hur trailer
Your first priority should be to get it to stop before you get it running.
absolutely true!
I'm getting this sense there is no point in getting it "running" first.
that I should just start stripping it down.
are there guidelines for stripping these things down?
I have never done a frame off rebuild, so this is all uncharted territory for me.
I cant see the inside of the frame rails until I remove the box installed there..but will do shortly.
Just open your hood and look down at the frame rail on the driver's side. It should be boxed in from the grill to the brake master cylinder as shown below.
Tub is clearly M38. It would be interesting to see which carb you have on that F134.
The wiring is in horrible shape and very poorly routed. I would be careful with that.
AM i correct in assuming you are referring to the tubular cross brace?
Joined: Feb 25, 2006 Posts: 345 Location: Wichita, KS
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:59 pm Post subject:
This is the boxed frame to which Wes is referring.
_________________ 1951 M38
1952 M38
1952 M38A1
1942 Dodge WC-55
1951 M100 trailer
1942 Ben Hur trailer
This is the boxed frame to which Wes is referring.
OH!
I didnt realize the whole frame wasnt boxed...
this is where my ignorance of old jeeps comes in.
Confirmed. The frame is boxed in the front like the picture.
There, you now know you have an M38 frame! You already found out you had an M38 tub and Grill.
Quote:
I'm getting this sense there is no point in getting it "running" first.
that I should just start stripping it down.
are there guidelines for stripping these things down?
I have never done a frame off rebuild, so this is all uncharted territory for me.
Getting it running if she is already close to runable is a good Idea! It gives you a chance to closely evaluate it's condition under somewhat reasonable operating conditions.
What do you need to have on hand for a restoration?
Start at page one:
1 - Decide what you want the jeep to be!
2 - Gather up the most immediate needed items for your resto.
a - Digital camera. (not a I phone). So you can take photos of everything before you take it apart.
b - A RESTO note book. Loose leaf works best. That way you not only have lined paper to take notes on but if you keep a three hole punch handy you can download or print individual manual pages, web site drawings and etc and add them to your note book as you go.
c - Manuals. No excuse here for not having them at least in PDF format on your work bench. They are free. Paper is nice though. What manuals pertain to the M38? See the list attached below. You would be amazed at how much written support data there is for that old M38!
d - Tools. Your supply of tools should equal your level of mechanical aptitude. As this level improves your list should get longer. I have been wrenching on cars & aircraft since 1962. One important thing I have learned from all that time is if you need it get it!
e - Resto Facilities. You will need a roof, lights, a work bench, a compressor and a set of basic hand tools in a roll around box!
A few things can help improve your level of success: Money!, An understanding wife! An ability to read at least at the 8th grade reading level!
A desire to research needed answers before asking others on the internet to do it for you! The ability to set goals. The ability and stamina to reach them.
Contrary to common beliefs there are and always will be a few stupid questions! If you stumble onto one of these stupid questions just roll your eyes and move on!
Good luck with your jeep repurpose exercise!
Quote:
M38 Manual and TB List
Based on data initially compiled by Howard Sabin for Army Motors
TB ORD 247 14 May 51
Wll Transport Vehicles, Headlight adjustment
TB ORD 370 9 AUG 54
1/4-ton, 4x4, trucks, Ford Model GPW, Willys Model MB, M38, and M38A1: 3/4-ton Dodge trucks models WC51, WC52, WC53, WC54, WC56, WC57, WC58, WC59, WC61, WC64, M37, M42, M43, M56 and M201: 1 1/2-ton 6x6 trucks, Dodge Models WC62 and WC63: Use of front axle non driving flanges for temporarily converting vehicles from four-wheel drive to two-wheel drives.
TB ORD 434 14 Mar 52
Combat & Transport vehicles with 24-volt electrical systems: Instructions for checking 24-volt instruments that do not zero.
TB ORD 467 11 AUG 52
1/4-ton and 3/4-ton, 4x4 trucks and 2 1/2 and 5 ton, 6x6 trucks "M" models: Use of proper fuel tank filler caps.
TB ORD 470 9 SEP 52
1/4-ton and 3/4-ton, 4x4 trucks and 2 1/2 and 5 ton, 6x6 trucks "M" models: Instructions for proper cleaning of crankcase valve assembly.
TB ORD 479
Ordnance motor vehicles: Standardization of electric type instruments.
TB ORD 485 19 JAN 53
1/4-ton and 3/4-ton, 4x4 trucks and 2 1/2 and 5 ton, 6x6 trucks "M" models: Servicing data plate corrections.
TB ORD 487 3 FEB 53
Identification and maintenance of fuel filter.
TB ORD 499 4 MAR 53
1/4-ton and 3/4-ton, 4x4 trucks and 2 1/2 and 5 ton, 6x6 trucks "M" models: Identification and replacement of hydraulic stoplight switches.
TB ORD 524 8 JUN 53
Installed metal fuel tanks: Cleaning and preserving
TB ORD 547 18 DEC 53
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility trucks M38 and M38A1: Prevention of crankshaft pulley failures.
TB ORD 554 1 MAR 54
1/4-ton, 4x4, truck M38 series; 3/4-ton, 4x4, truck M37 series; 2 1/2-ton 6x6, truck M34 series; and 5-ton, 6x6, truck M40 series: Removal of flywheel housing drain plug.
TB ORD 560 13 MAY 54
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility trucks M38 and m38A1: Revision of tire pressures on servicing data plates.
.
TB ORD 589 7 JAN 55
1/4-ton. 4x4, truck M38, M38A1, M170 ……………: Installation of distributor point set.
TB ORD 625 5 Jan 56
All tactical wheeled vehicles: Cleaning of power train case ventilating valves
TB ORD 610 12 JUN 55
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck M38, M38A1C, 1/4-ton, frontline ambulance truck M170: Operating of fording valve.
TB ORD 621 2 DEC 55
Tandem hitch 2540-735-8343 (8-H-1826): Installation on 1/4-ton, 4x4 trucks MB, GPW, M38 and M38A1.
TB ORD 626 1 OCT 57
Tactical transport vehicles: Excessive fuel tank pressure.
TB ORD 1007 2 DEC 57
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility trucks, M38, M38A1, and M38A1C, and 1/4-ton, 4x4, frontline ambulance truck M170: Instructions for reinforcing clutch release fork at fulcrum seat or pivot point.
TB ORD 2300-20/4 18 AUG 58
1/4-ton, 4x4 trucks M38, M38A1, (etc): Stowage locations for pioneer tools and brackets
TB 9-804-1 8 JUL 52
1/4-ton. 4x4, Utility truck, M38: Prevention of damage to the oil filter flexible line.
TB 9-804-12 3 DEC 53
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck, M38: To prevent contact of front wheels against chassis frame, fender and lifting hook.
TB 9-804-13 29 APR 54
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck, M38: To prevent chaffing of fuel and vent lines at fuel tank.
TB 9-804-14 6 JUN 54
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck, M38: Identification of speedometer flexible shaft assembly by vehicle serial number.
TB 9-1804B-1 24 FEB 54
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck M38: Kingpin bearing cap screw selection
TB 9-1825S-1 18 JUN 53
Electrical connector repair kit41-K-103-100: Proper use of tools.
TB 9-1859-8 9 MAR 53
1/4-ton, 4x4, Command Reconnaissance Truck: Time schedule guide.
TB 9-2300-206-15 28 NOV 58
1/4-ton, 4x4 trucks, M38, M38A1, M38A1C, M170 equipped with high capacity AC-DC 100 ampere 28v generating systems: Test and rebuild of generating system.
TB 9-2300-206-15 Change 1 ?_________
TB 9-2300-210-20 21 JAN 59
Truck, 1/4-ton, 4x4, M38, M38A1, M38A1C, M170: Interchangeability of air and oil pressure sending units and gauges and installation instructions.
TB 9-2855-2 23 DEC 52
Instructions for the installation of personnel heater kit for 1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck M38 (Willys MC) (24V) (G-740).
TB 9-2855-3 16 DEC 52
Instructions for the installation of power plant heater kit for 1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck M38 (Willys MC) (24V) (0 to -65 degrees F).
TB 9-2855-4 27 OCT 52
Instructions for installation of hardtop closure kit for 1/4 - ton, 4x4, utility truck M38 (Willys MC) (G-740).
TB 9-2855-32 10 DEC 56
1/4 - ton 4x4, utility truck M38: Instructions for installation of hot water personnel heater kit.
TB 9-8012-2 11 OCT 56
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck M38: Replacement of fuel pump.
TB 9-8012-1 20 JUN 56
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck M38: Elimination of interference between front spring rebound clips and tie rods.
MWO ORD G740-W9 2 FEB 56
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck M38: Waterproofing of steering gear and draining of steering jacket.
MWO ORD G740-W10 6 OCT 55
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck M38: Securing front passenger seat pivot pin to seat hinge pivot.
MWO ORD G740-W11 1 NOV 56
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck M38: Installation ac-dc generator kit.
MWO ORD G1-W63 19 SEP 57
1/4-ton, 4x4, trucks M38, M38A1, M38A1C, and M170: 3/4-ton ……….: Replacement of air and oil pressure gauges, sending units, and installation of pipe coupling
MWO ORD G1-W85 22 MAR 57
1/4-ton, 4x4, trucks M170, M38, and M38A1: Installation of castellated nut and cotter pin on steering bellcrank pivot shaft.
MWO ORD G1-W88 3 OCT 56
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck M38, M38A1, M38A1C and front line ambulance truck M170: Modification of clutch release pedal rod.
MWO ORD G1-W94 29 OCT 56
1/4-ton, 4x4, utility truck M38: 1/4-ton, 4x4, utility trucks (Ford model GPW and Willys Model MB): Installation of 105-mm rifle M27A1 with 105-mm rifle mount M75A1 or 106-mm rifle M40 (M170E1) with 106-mm rifle mount M79.
SM ORD 8 SNL G-740, Vol. 9 25 JAN 55
Winterization Equipment for truck, utility, 1/4-ton, 4x4, M38 (SNL G-740)
SM ORD 7 SNL G-740 26 FEB 51
Organizational Maintenance Allowances for Truck, utility: 1/4-ton, 4x4, M38
SM ORD 7 SNL G-740 Change 1 29 APR 52
SM ORD SNL G-740 26 FEB 53
Organizational Maintenance Allowances for Truck, utility,: 1/4-ton,4x4, M38
SM ORD 7 SNL G-740 Change 1 26 OCT 54
SM ORD 7 SNL G-740 15 FEB 55
Organizational Maintenance Allowances for Truck, utility,: 1/4-ton,4x4, M38
SM ORD 7 SNL G-740 25 JUN 56
Organizational Maintenance Allowances for Truck, utility,: 1/4-ton,4x4, M38
SM ORD 7 SNL G-740 Change 1 25 APR 60
SM ORD 8 SNL G-740 1 DEC 50
Field and depot maintenance allowances for Truck, utility: 1/4-ton, 4x4, M38
SM ORD 8 SNL G-740 16 MAR 53
Field and depot maintenance allowances for Truck, utility: 1/4-ton, 4x4, M38
SM ORD 8 SNL G-740 16 FEB 55
Field and depot maintenance allowances for Truck, utility: 1/4-ton, 4x4, M38
SM ORD 8 SNL G-740 25 JUN 56
Field and depot maintenance allowances for Truck, utility: 1/4-ton, 4x4, M38
SM ORD 9 SNL G-740 19 NOV 51
List of all service parts of truck, utility: 1/4-ton, 4x4, M38
SM ORD 9 SNL G-740 1 SEP 55
List of all service parts of truck, utility: 1/4-ton, 4x4, M38
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2050 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:19 pm Post subject:
Welcome to the Club Zartoon!
The M38 is a special breed. It's the smallest production quantity of any jeep model Willys ever made (about 65,000 in 2 years).
Willys made about twice that many of it's closest cousin (the CJ-3A) in 4 years of production.
Nobody knows how many survive.
Next to the Army and Willys manuals and the M38 Reference Guide, this website is your absolute best resource for M38 knowledge and experience nuggets that can't be found anywhere else.
No doubt that 76,000 posts is a lot of information to sort and sift through, but most questions have been asked and answered several times over the last 17 years --- if you have good search skills you'll find them.
But never let that stop you from participating and asking questions!
Great group of folks here.
You can decide later if you want to keep track of receipts.
Good luck! _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
There, you now know you have an M38 frame! You already found out you had an M38 tub and Grill.
Thank you for helping me get started down this road. I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. Have been wrenching on cars since 1988, but have never done a full restoration. I have also never done a soup to nuts engine or trans rebuild. But I have done pretty much everything else.
So this maybe a good project for the time. If I were to outsource the engine/trans/transfercase/diffs rebuild, where would i do it? I'm in the los angeles area. (Not that i'm going down this route, but just exploring options to buy back some time)
Paint - definitely will be painted Army green - do I get my local body shop to mix it? or do I purchase it from a specific place?
a few more subjective questions that I'd like everyone's thoughts on.
I have decided I'll be keeping the jeep 12V. I dont think it makes sense to convert it back to 24 volts considering i'm not looking to win any awards.
Given this, does it make sense to add the battery hatch back in? I'm leaning toward not having the battery hatch, and just be ok with the fact that my M38 will be a bit less authentic without the 24V system and the second battery hatch.
Turn Signals: it looks like they were added at some point - seems like a good add-on if I intend to drive it around town. thoughts?
Rear lights - Mine has some strange giant circular red lights and a very odd looking reverse light - what 12V systems looks the part for tail lights?
Lastly, wiring harness - is there a 12V version of the wiring harness I can buy or do I buy a 24V harness and use that instead? or is the consensus that I just need to build a wirling harness from scratch?
thank you all for all your comments - I am still perplexed at the state of this jeep, but I guess I just need to be ok with not knowing fully what it is and how it got to be what it is today.
The battery hatch: It is one of those things that makes the M38 unique. They reproduce the hatch and the box. But you "could" find a hatch and attach it to the top of the cowl and be done with it?
If you are driving it much, turn signals are a must. There are lenses that go on the original blackout lights in the grill and can be fitted.
How bout a picture of the rear lights? The orinals are readily available. The lights dont care what voltage is being used, the BULBS inside do. The military lights accept standard 12V bulbs.
Wiring harness: If you arent restoring it, same yourself the price of a very expensive wiring harness. Look on line for aftermarket CJ-3 appropriate harnesses. Walcks (Im sure I butchered that) offers harnesses that are somewhat generic.
Have fun! Study first, then make decisions.
Here is Frankenjeep. Mostly M38. 12V and 24V. You can see the turn signal lens I mentioned. Without opening the hood nothing gives away the 12V part of it
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