No problem. Not so much the wrong foot, more like misunderstood the phot posting regimen. Photos are part of jeep discussions and we accommodate them on this free website by keeping their size reasonable. We offer photo albums to our members so they can store them on line and easily link their post discussions to specific photos using their album location link. When the poster,s album is not on our web site they can still reference that photo by listing the public access link. This way we can share ideas and offer photo support at reasonable cost. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
I talked to the previous owner of my M38 today at our amateur radio club meeting, and he mentioned that he had some more parts for me whenever I could swing by the shop. He already gave me a boat load of stuff when I drove the jeep home (belts, hoses, plug wires, filters, manuals, etc).
Today he sent me home with:
(3) wheels and tires
(2) tires with tubes
an extra Carter YS carb
(2) undated, later model (hinged caps) water cans
an early WWII dated fuel can
a large parachute in a tote (he used it to cover the jeep from dust / mud dobbers)
...and practically every issue of Military Vehicle magazine from its inception in 1987 to date. I think I'm only missing a dozen or so issues.
Also, can anyone help me identify what vehicle these wheels are for? He seemed to think it might be the M151, but wasn't sure. I don't see any difference between these and the ones on my jeep.
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2017 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 7:26 pm Post subject:
Wheels are definitely not M151.
Easy web search for "M151 wheels" will show you why.
Assuming they're 16x4.5 inch, they look like M38 or M38A1 to me.
Cleaned up and re-mounted with new tubes would make great spare tires. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
This post is mainly for discussion / opinions, and they're all welcome.
I'm continuously researching (and will likely never stop) so I may answer some of my own questions as I go, but I'd like to hear what everyone else has to say.
My immediate plans with my jeep are to drive/enjoy it, but I can't leave well enough alone sometimes. I'm not a total purist, but I like things to be "pretty close" to how they should be. The original plan was to fix the incorrect markings on the jeep, but now I feel myself leaning toward bigger things...like a re-paint.
First and foremost, I want my jeep to be a "radio jeep." It came with the radios (set AN/GRC-7) and I've been wearing out my bank account these last few weeks purchasing some of the smaller stuff I'm missing. However, my jeep wasn't a radio jeep that I know of (connector bracket near passenger was never drilled for the connector to mount). So, whatever direction I decide to take, I don't want the radios to appear out of place.
I thought about repainting the jeep in the darker OD shown below and giving it USMC (I'm a Marine) markings appropriate for the period (no idea if this darker shade is "correct" or not, but I like it best). Maybe making it a tribute to a unit involved in one of the larger conflicts the USMC was a part of (Chosin Reservoir comes to mind).
My jeep came from the USAF (though they procured it through the Army). I don't have much info on what it was used for by the USAF or where, but I'm 90% confident it was used as a "test vehicle" of some sort due to old, local photographs.
Due to the USAF history and the fact that an uncle was a USAF morse operator in the early Vietnam period, I've thought about making it a USAF radio jeep. The blue paint certainly looks great and I've never seen one in person (seen TONS of them in OD...).
So, I'm at a crossroads on deciding which direction to go. If I decide to stick with OD/USMC, does this darker shade of OD work? I find LOTS of conflicting info out there on the different shades of OD.
If I decide to put it back to strata blue (still have traces of it in odd spots), is there anything I currently have that would be out of place? For example, were the OD canvas tops used on blue jeeps? I'm also guessing that the radio equipment would have been OD from the Army regardless of which color jeep they'd be used in.
The biggest thing I DON'T want, is to have a jeep that screams "no way in H&!! would that have been possible during that time period." To each their own, but I've seen enough 101st AB/506 PIR MBs/GPWs/2As to think that there must've been at least 2 jeeps per paratrooper in the Ardennes Forrest (and they all had a M1919 too).
So many questions...
-WRM
"darker OD" (image found online)
Last edited by WRMorrison on Sat Sep 07, 2024 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
Your radio set is an Army / Marine type set and is specifiic to Armor. Inantry etc. A USAF jeep would have the radios common to air field service and flightline service or in the rare possibility a USAF M38 used by an close air support team. At any rate since the radio set is the center of your focus I would stay with ground forces units likely to use the set you have. There are several Military Comm sites that would be extremely helpful and benificial to you as well. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
This is what I just found while removing the incorrectly mounted MP-50 antenna mount (so I can install the "L" shaped bracket from drawing SC-C-28591). At some point, this was painted the shade of OD that I actually want (and what also matches the NOS bracket that I have).
Looks like I also get to fill in these holes and drill new ones because they weren't drilled in the right spot (bracket interferes with the reflector on the back corner - otherwise, it's the same bolt pattern).
24087 showed up with the new 5 digit federal paint standard in 1953. The Army chose it as their main OD and field repaints of Army M38's usually ended up in 24087.
24052 is the correct USMV semi-gloss OD.
Here's another multi color display from my Photo sub-album: Mseries paint and markings.
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2017 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:55 am Post subject:
Lot of debate about paint causes the "what the he!!" remark.
At the risk of kicking the can over again, the Marines painted war gear like jeeps with flat lusterless 34052, not semi-gloss 24052.
And markings were likewise flat lusterless yellow, not semi-gloss.
By the way, all 5 reflectors on the M38 are red. None are amber.
Looking at your photos, you have a few other bracketry issues (incorrect, missing, misplaced). _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
By the way, all 5 reflectors on the M38 are red. None are amber.
Looking at your photos, you have a few other bracketry issues (incorrect, missing, misplaced).
I didn't know about the reflectors; thanks for the heads-up. Some of the stuff listed below may not be visible in the pics I have here. Here are the other issues that I'm aware of; let me know what I've missed (as far as missing/incorrect bracketry):
- MP-50 antenna mount is upside down and missing the L-bracket from SC-C-28591
- missing one of the knobs (lower right) from headlight switch
- missing RR shackle
- front bumper is possibly wrong? I thought there should be a hole in the middle
- missing a couple of footman loops
- missing RR seat spring
- missing RR seat "retaining latch"
- missing horn
- missing engine compartment battery box/lid/hold-down
- missing first aid kit
Feel free to point out anything unusual; I've got thick skin and can take it...lol.
Thanks Wes; I haven't had the time yet to fully browse all the info you have stored here. I'm a bit overwhelmed at the moment.
It sounds like my more logical choices at the moment are:
1: strata blue and remove / change the radios (which really isn't what I want to do - I really like the look of the blue paint, but replacing all the radio gear would be costly) I'm told mine came from the USAF (and there are traces of the blue in places), but I haven't found any 100% solid proof.
2: USMC re-paint (keep radios, and would likely need a few other USMC upgrades like lifting shackles and such?)
3: possible US Army touch-up (repaint?)
If I understand the contract info in Ryan's book, my jeep was part of contract DA-33-019-ORD-43. That was split between the Army and the Air Force. I would assume that the USMC would have procured any of theirs through the Army? If that's the case, would my data plate have "Ordnance Dept" for both procurement and Depot Maintenance (as it does) or would the USMC have put a new plate on there changing the "depot maintenance" to "Marine Corps?"
I also forgot to mention that the PA system and turn signal stuff was removed as soon as it was parked in my driveway.
I also know that the toggle switch on my dash at the bottom shouldn't be there; it's for the inline electric fuel pump that the PO installed. He installed a momentary switch to prime the fuel lines up to the mechanical pump.
I'm also aware that the radios are mounted in the jeep incorrectly - the MT-297 is bolted to 2 pieces of angle iron that are (were) bolted to the fenderwells. I've got some steel on order to recreate the FT-285 mount.
I wanted to add that while sifting through old receipts, I found that the PO had purchased 3 gallons (split between 3 orders) of 24087 OD paint from Nelson's Surplus Jeeps and Parts out of Columbiana, OH. No dates on the orders.
I'm assuming that this is the darker green that's shown beneath where the MP-50 antenna mount was. I don't know when the lighter shade of OD was sprayed on top (and I don't know which shade it is), but I do know that he said that he had the jeep ceramic coated at some point to protect the paint.
I also found a receipt from 1995 for "PLA/623 paint" from Carquest for $6.10. No luck figuring out what color/type of paint this is.
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2017 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2024 2:43 pm Post subject:
WRMorrison wrote:
Feel free to point out anything unusual; I've got thick skin and can take it...lol. -WRM
And rob you of the joy of discovery?
That would be too easy!
I see you have a copy of the M38 Reference Guide.
That most excellent resource has a photo of most every bracket on the M38.
Between it and the Army manuals, especially the ORD9, you should have little difficulty discovering where your missing or misplaced brackets are.
The standard M38 front bumper is 46-inches wide with a center hole for the hand crank (hand crank wasn’t used on the M38 because the M38 crank shaft nut isn’t equipped for a crank handle).
Later long bumper is 54-inches wide and some with or without the crank hole in the center is a M38A1 bumper but was also used on the M38.
The hand crank hole in the bumper was an overlooked hold-over from WW2 MB-GPW jeep days.
He’s an old thread about it: http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11657&highlight=front+bumper
If I recall correctly, the Marines didn’t do any special lifting brackets on the M38 (those came later on the M38A1).
The only thing the Marines did was overpaint the Army color with 34052 and spray a thick undercoating on everything under the jeep to help manage or prevent salt water corrosion.
WRMorrison wrote:
Also, can anyone help me identify what vehicle these wheels are for? He seemed to think it might be the M151, but wasn't sure. I don't see any difference between these and the ones on my jeep.
I just noticed that the wheels on your M416 trailer are also M151 wheels.
Hope this helps! _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Last edited by RonD2 on Sun Sep 08, 2024 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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