WR, Until 1953 the US Army was the primary tactical vehicle procurement representative/Agency for USAF, Navy, Marines and the Army. All the M38 contracts were delivered from the Army to Willys/Kaiser up til then. The only official clue to which service operated a vehicle first are the lower left data plate or if USAF they added their own data plates.
Here's a couple of examples:
This jeep was procured and initially operated by the Army.
This jeep was Procured by the Army and initially operated by the USMC.
This jeep was Procured by the Army and initially operated by the USN.
Notice I used the word "initially" before "operated by". It is extremely difficult to follow the trail of these jeeps during their service life. For example when the Big switch to the M151 started in late 1959 the Army was directed to make the mass turnover quickly. Most of the M38A1's they turned in to the Defense Disposal Service were quickly procured by the USMC who then immediately sent those several thousand M38A1's to their own vehicl overhaul depots in Cal. and Georgia where they were repainted, had new Procurement Data plates installed and were undercoated and equipped with linited slip diff's.
Also it was common for these older jeeps to show up at family services and other base support services where they would languish unattended for many years. And we must also mention their disposal to the Reserve and Guard units. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Thanks Wes; you're a wealth of info, and I have no idea how you retain it all. It sounds like it's entirely plausible that my jeep could have been a USMC jeep (though it likely wasn't, according to stories I've been told).
Speaking of stories, I'm starting to doubt that this was ever an Air Force jeep. It's in pretty dang good shape, and all of the data plates are present (I even found the body tag from behind the pass seat neatly wrapped up in the box of documentation I received). The lack of a USAF tag makes me suspicious.
It was definitely blue at one time because of all the traces of blue paint in places, but I do know that it was last used (in an official capacity) by the local Civil Defense, and I'm told that it had a blue grill while the rest of the exterior was white. I posted a picture of it while it was being used by the CD, but it's a colorized photo, and these colors can be wrong/deceiving. In the old pics I have, it looks more like OD than blue, but all the blue under the toolbox lid had to come from somewhere, and it seems unlikely that the CD would have taken the time to paint in there.
That is always the problem with trying to decipher the jeeps previous life of 70 years or so. You cannot now nor ever in the future be able to account for every transition your jeep went thru in those 70 years. There's no telling when the tub may have been swapped out. Or when the the grill may have been swapped out. It was not uncommon for the military to combine the remains of two jeeps and use the records of only one and put it back in service. The energy we often spend trying to uncover and rediscover the uncoverable and unrediscoverable past would be better spent choosing a direction today that you wish to take the jeep on it's new life event. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2005 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2024 8:32 pm Post subject:
wesk wrote:
That is always the problem with trying to decipher the jeeps previous life of 70 years or so. You cannot now nor ever in the future be able to account for every transition your jeep went thru in those 70 years. There's no telling when the tub may have been swapped out. Or when the the grill may have been swapped out. It was not uncommon for the military to combine the remains of two jeeps and use the records of only one and put it back in service. The energy we often spend trying to uncover and rediscover the uncoverable and unrediscoverable past would be better spent choosing a direction today that you wish to take the jeep on it's new life event.
That might be the best wisdom and advice I've ever read about owning a M38.
Certainly in the Top 10. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Thanks Ron. That wisdom came from 54 years of searching for background info sources 1st on my GPW in 1970, then the M38A1 in 1983, then the USAF DJ5D in 1998 and finally the M38 in 2005. I can't begin to describe the frustration endured during each of those searches but I did learn that it is just about a fruitless endeavor and restoring the jeep itself was a lot more rewarding. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Took a LONG road trip yesterday and this was the haul.
The seller picked it up at an auction ~20 years ago and never did much with it. His brother tore it apart to "fix" it, and you know how that goes... He remembers it being mostly M38 with a few CJ3A parts. It had an F-head in it with a cracked block when purchased, so it was tossed (a few spare parts were kept). The M38 hood had a huge hole cut in it for the air cleaner, plus a few other issues, so it was tossed. Someone had picked up a 3A hood, fenders and windshield frame for spares somewhere along the way.
At some point the title disappeared with the MC/DOD plate, but they missed the body tag: MC 44671. If I'm correct, this would put DOD somewhere around 12/51 (3 months before my M38/60043), but part of the same supply contract.
Lots of good part here I hope to either use or keep as spares once I've finished properly identifying everything. The main thing for me will be identifying what's M38 and what's CJ3A (or other).
I'm not familiar at all with the F-134; can anyone identify these 2 parts?
Lots to sort through and determine what gets kept or sold.
In the old pics I have, it looks more like OD than blue, but all the blue under the toolbox lid had to come from somewhere, and it seems unlikely that the CD would have taken the time to paint in there.
As I mentioned above there is no way to ascertain that tub ever left Willys with those data plates. There is no way to ascertain that those screw on data plates were ever original to that tub or that any of the jeep ever belonged to those two data plates.
A suggestion is to open a record folder and list each piece of evidence/clues found and using a self made scoring system rate each one on how much it may have helped you in your resto. Keep the folder with the jeep for historical purposes. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Your new parts acquisition looks to be a good assortment of M38 and CJ parts. Odd that F 134 head is in there. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2005 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 5:28 pm Post subject:
WRMorrison wrote:
I'm not familiar at all with the F-134; can anyone identify these 2 parts?
-Rich
The top item is the power pack lift hook bolted to the head on the M38A1's F134 engine.
Same purpose but different style than the lift hook used on the M38 L134 engine.
Forward notch (loop) is used just to lift and balance the motor for removal while the rear notch (loop) lifts and balances the entire power pack (motor, trans, and transfer case) for removal.
Part number is listed and illustrated in the M38A1 ORD9 manual.
Could be mistaken, but think both M38 and M38A1 lift hooks were military items not offered by Willys as standard equipment on other models.
The bottom item appears to be a repop coolant tube used in the top radiator hose on WW2 MB-GPW's and I think maybe also early CJ2A jeeps.
I recall reading it was a WW2 measure to conserve rubber.
Not used on the M38, CJ3A, or M38A1. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Your new parts acquisition looks to be a good assortment of M38 and CJ parts. Odd that F 134 head is in there.
For sure. I guess there was an F-134 in it when he bought it at auction. Researching now to determine if the air cleaner / oil filter / etc are 3A as well.
The bottom item appears to be a repop coolant tube
Thanks! I saw the lift hook in some pics online, but didn't know that it was a lift hook at the time. I kind of thought that the tube was supposed to be for top coolant hose as there's nowhere else I could see it fitting. Either that, or I thought maybe some tractor parts got mixed up in my lot.
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