Joined: Dec 09, 2013 Posts: 31 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject: Numbers stamped on my M38 frame: hood number/serial number?
My name is Luiz Felipe and I live in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. This is my first post here.
I have a Kaiser Jeep M606 date of delivery 01/65 and S/N 130227. Recently, I have bought a Willys M38. I'm so happy with my new acquisition and I'm trying to learn about it as much as possible. I have many questions and doubts regarding my M38 and I would like to share them with you.
The first issue is regarding serial number and date of delivery. The original dash data plates in my M38 are missing and the previous owner installed a set of reproduction data plates but there are no information stamped on them, reason that I can't know about either date of delivery or serial number. According to the vehicle document, the production year is 1951, but I'm not sure if it's real true.
The identification serial number plate located on the passenger wheel well is also a reproduction and has a number stamped on it, but the number is an alphanumeric number which is the same number that was stamped on the passenger side frame sometime ago by Brazilian Dept. of Traffic. Probably it occurred after the M38 had been sold to a civilian through a Brazilian Army surplus auction. The only information known is from an overhaul plate riveted to the glove box door which says that the vehicle was overhauled at Red River Arsenal in February 1961 (see picture below).
As the Jeep is over 60 years old, is hard to get some information about its past. Probably the Jeep first belonged to U.S. Army and then, after 1961 overhauling, it was sent to Brazilian Army under the MDAP (Mutual Defense Assistance Program) where U.S. Government used to supply surplus weaponry and military vehicles to friendly foreign governments.
After a closer frame examination in order to find something stamped on it, I found a number stamped and partially covered by painting on the top of the left side front frame rail (see picture below).
After cleaning with painting solvent the whole number finally came out (see picture below).
As you can note, there are three numbers stamped as follows:
20945744
40001
047
After talking to some military vehicles experts, I was told that some Brazilian Army soldiers used to take off data plates from military vehicles in the past. Then, Brazilian Army found a way to keep those vehicles permanently identified by stamping the serial number on the Jeeps' frames. Supposing that it's true, is it possible that 40001 is really the original serial number from my Jeep?
According to my research, 20945744 seems to be a military vehicle hood number. Supposing that 20945744 is the original hood number from my Jeep, why was it stamped on the frame. I wonder if such numbers were stamped when the vehicle was still in US just before leaving towards Brazil.
And what about the last number 047 stamped? What could it be?
The second issue is regarding engine serial number. I have searched for an engine serial number stamped on the engine cylinder block behind the water pump, but it was covered by painting. After cleaning with painting solvent an erased number came out (see picture below).
It's only possible to read 020, probably due to some engine cylinder block resurfacing held in the past. Maybe it can indicate overbore cylinders by .020.
By looking to the engine block, I found a number stamped on the right side of the front of the engine block (see pictures below).
What does this number mean? Could it be a new engine number after a complete engine overhauling?
Please, could somebody help me to find an approximate date of delivery as well as a approximate serial number from my M38? Any help will be useful.
Thaks in advance,
Luiz Felipe
[img][/img] _________________ Luiz Felipe Santos
1952 M38
1965 M606
Many government overhaul depots would stamp the hood registration number on the frame rail during a vehicle overhaul since the jeep would usually be completely disassembled.
The US Army tracked all vehicle issues by the hood registration number. The only time the dash plate serial was referred to was when ordering parts or complying with service bulletins.
The hood registration number 20945744 would have been on an April 1952 M38 and the serial range would have been MC64XXX . The contract number would have been most likely DA-33-019-ORD-494.
The 020 on the small flat above the water pump is most likely the dimension of the undersize bearings or oversize bore.
My photo albums have several hundred technical photos that you'll find very helpful.
Joined: Dec 09, 2013 Posts: 31 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:52 pm Post subject:
Hello Wes!
Thank you for your reply.
The cast number is 638632 W4 A. It has also a "clocked" date. The pointer points straight left and the date is 7-25.
I have made a quick research and found that such engine block used to belong to either Willys MB or Willys CJ2A. However, the serial number stamped on the oval pad in my block is 5FS 000279, which differs from the type of numbers used on Willys MB (MB XXXXXX) and Willys CJ2A (CJ2A XXXXX) engines. I wonder if the original engine block from my M38 was replaced during the 1961 overhauling at Red River Arsenal by a surplus Willys MB engine block, and the MB original serial number could have been ground off of the oval pad and then a new number stamped on it. What do you think?
And what about the 40001 and 047 numbers also stamped on the frame? Any guess? _________________ Luiz Felipe Santos
1952 M38
1965 M606
Your engine is most likely a WWII block. The serial is of the many types used by commercial overhaulers to ID their blocks for warranty purposes. The 40001 047 numbers are probably the work order number for the overhaul. You have only one choice left to determine your jeep's serial number accurately. Remove the plate on the passenger side wheel house. Clean it with DOT 3 brake fluid and rinse it off. DO NOT USE ANY ABRASIVES!! Now examine it closely for a number. You can also ask your local police to check it chemically if you can't decipher the numbers. The numbers are very lightly etched into those tags.
The two examples below will show you how difficult they are to read.
Just saw this while researching the M606; your Red River rebuild plate looks funny to me; Red River was never an Arsenal, it was, since 1941 and is, a Depot. For ammunition storage and later a vehicle rebuild facility. Abbreviated RRAD. Completely different thing.
And Arsenal would not be abbreviated to ARS. Just A.
We only have three Arsenals; RIA, WVA, and PBA.
That plate looks very new.....just my observation. _________________ M38 23100 June 51
M38 34523 Sep 51
M606/CJ3B 1964 Kaiser 57348 118458
M37B1 1963
Willys MB 1944
Ford GPW 1942
Dodge WC63 1943
Dodge Power Wagon WM300 1967
Plymouth Barracuda, 1973, 340 4 barrel
All ground up restored by me.
Lots of others.
Joined: Dec 09, 2013 Posts: 31 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 3:54 pm Post subject:
Actually, Red River went through five name changes. The depot began as Texarkana Ordnance Depot. On August 9, 1941 the name became Red River Ordnance Depot. The depot received another change in January 1946 to Red River Arsenal and again in November 1961 back to Red River Ordnance Depot. In August 1962 ordnance was dropped and army was added as the depot was placed under the U.S. Army Supply and Maintenance Command. So the Red River Ars rebuild plate is, in fact, in accordance to the time of the rebuild.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
