Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject: Ok so how can I tell if my tierods and bellcrank are worn?
I pulled off my tie rods, drag link and bell crank.
The tie-rod ends seem really gritty and stiff so I think I am gonna need to replace those.
I have no idea how to tell if the drag link is worn out.
I have no idea if the bell crank is any good. The bearings look ok, the giant bolt doesn't look like its been worn down, but you can definitely see where the bearings ride around it.
Are the parts in the bell crank supposed to fall out, because mine didn't, looks like i would need a press to get them out. Of course they do have 50 years worth of grease packed in there.
Is there a TM or some pictures of what a good one looks like that can help me figure out if i need to replace it?
Joined: Nov 02, 2007 Posts: 437 Location: Seguin, Texas
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject:
If it was me I'd look at the symmetry of the bell crank for starters. Is the arm with the ball that fits into the draglink still straight or has it been bent? Is the ball at the end of this arm still vertical or has the arm been twisted? Is the geometry of the ball on this arm still round or are there significant signs of wear.....like flat spots.....or is it more oval then round? Then I'd ask the same questions about the arm that attaches to the tie rod. Is it still straight? Twisted in any way? And is the tapered hole round or wobbled out? If either of these arms are deformed I'd say replace the bellcrank. If they pass muster next I'd look at the top and bottom flats of the bellcrank where it rides on the bracket and the bolt head. Are they still nice and flat.....and parallel to one another....or are there grooves and irregular wear indications that would prevent the seals and dust cover from sealing? Finally.....I can't speak for new.....but yes, all my guts fell right out of my bellcrank......it was badly, badly worn and had been abused to the point where both arms were twisted and the thing could actually travel up and down on its mounting bolt. A new bellcrank and a bellcrank rebuild kit consisting of new seals, new bearings, a new spacer, and new mounting bolt spiffied mine right up.
Draglinks.....to me.....even new ones look worn out.....but first thing you have to do is clean up all the little parts and both ends of the rod. Inspect the cups on both ends for any signs of cracking or fatigue. Inspect the keyhole opennings in both cups. They shoudl look just like that......a keyhole. If one end or both looks more like a dog bone replace the draglink. Inspect all the little parts.......replace broken or colapsed springs.......replace badly worn ball plates....and finally.....when it comes time to reassemble....do NOT assume the parts go right back in the way you found them. Mine were soooo wrong. Get one of the appropriate manuals and do it just like the picture shows......exactly. I don't know which came first......the bad control or the bad wear.....but the way mine had been reassembled I am pretty sure it was the draglink coming off the pittman arm while driving that mangled my bellcrank. Anyway......good luck and remember......safety is no accident!!!
If you will reread the earlier post I put up on your video post:
Quote:
Nice idea with the video.
Visual wear issues:
1-both outboard tie rod ends.
2-Bellcrank bearing.
3-Bellcrank to tie rod ball joint.
If the amount of shaking you did was what we saw in the video it was not enough. You need to kneel on the ground close and facing the center of the wheel. grasp both the front and rear of the tread and with your buddy holding the wheel tight shake vigorously and slow enough to observe unwanted movement in the wheel/wheelbearing and back through all that steering linkage. Sometimes a bit of slop only shows up going from the wheel up and sometimes only when going from the steering wheel down.
Now grasp the top and bottom of the tread firmly and try hard to tilt the wheel top in then botom in while watching the pivot bearings very losely for slop.
Then go through the steerin linkage one item at a time and immobilize the items on each side of the one you are checking then try hard to move that item.
With the steering gear box you must immobilize the pitman arm then moving the steering wheel back and forth you should not get anymore than 1 to 1 1/2" of paly at the rim of the steering wheel.
The drag link is spring loaded so you really need to remove it, clean it up and assemble it in accordance with the manual and adjust the preload on each end correctly then check it for ecess play. Even though both ends use the same group of parts the front and rear ends use them in different arrangements. So follow the book closely and DO NOT rely on how they were originally assembled to do your assembly.
Steering bellcrank
and a few lines further down:
Quote:
If any tapered steel hole for the tapered part of the balljoint is worn irregular the best and safest thing to do is replace the worn part. Same with the bellcrank. The way she is rocking vertically I think that tapered hole is very worn.
If you have any doubts about what is real wear just post a photo of the item here.
For quality exploded views you have them above. Copy them to your computer and then print them.
There are two good manuals for you to be looking at right now on the bench:
TM9-8015-2 M38A1 chassis and running gear.
The civilian Kaiser manual SM1002 or SM1046
and of course the ORD 9 SNL G-758 parts manual.
You will a need occasionally to refer back to the basic M38A1 service manual TM 9-8014. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
I should have been more clear in what I was asking. I just spent 6 hours removing a bunch of this stuff in 100+ heat so I didnt feel like getting out the camera.
What I was looking for is a tolerance sheet so I can use a dial caliber to measure if its still serviceable or not.
On some of the military equipment I have dealt with in the past it included a page that had wear points and a tolerance range to tell if its serviceable or not.
I could not find it in the TM I have, but could be looking in the completely wrong location.
I will post pics of the parts this afternoon.
So far my worst case shopping list:
Tie Rod End- Left-Outer-M38a1-809191
Tie Rod End- Right Inner-M38a1-809189
Tie Rod End-Right Outer & Left Inner-M38a1-809190
Tie Rod End-Right Outer & Left Inner-M38a1-809190
Ok here are pictures of every thing i have removed. Wesk feel free to use some of these pics to help others.
Overview of every thing:
Tie rod ends...i would say these are a classic example of worn. I used a puller to get them off so the damage done to these was already there.
Drag link ends. They look kinda of rough but I don't have a picture of a good one close up to compare it to.
Bell crank. The bearings look decent, I will replace them any way. I don't know if the hole on one of the shafts though is ok. The ball joint is still round and smooth even though some paint is missing.
Bellcrank shaft, other then it being discolored where the bearings have been rolling on it still feels smooth. I will have to get my dial caliber out and measure different spots on it.
Left and right swing arm shafts. Other then being dirty they don't look like they have been worn unevenly.
Bellcrank bracket shaft. Sorry for the crappy picture. The sleeve looks ok and doesn't seem to be unevenly worn.
From what I can tell looks like i am going to be purchasing new tie rods, possibly a new draglink, and a bellcrank rebuild kit (just to be safe).
In your video it was easy to see that all the tie rod ball joints except the center joint to the bellcrank (which was not visible) were excessively worn. In addition several had slop in the tapered fitment which is never allowed to have any play. Any non moving contact surface that is worn and exhibits any looseness or rocking is bad. This applies to all the tapered holes. The bellcrank center pair of bearings can only have their wear determined while installed on the shaft. more than .002 and they are too loose. The two bearings are a snug press fit and if they fell out on disassembly the bellcrank is worn and junk. The drag link wear limit can be established by assembly with new small parts and if she adjusts correctly for tension and the balls when inserted and tensioned do not move into and out of the holes more than about a 1/16" to 3/32" are ok. Those that move more can be either the socket is worn in the draglink or the ball end of the applicable arm us worn excessively. You won't see a specific limit measurement for the balls and their sockets because these would vary depending on which part has how much wear. This becomes very subjective and requires a bit of experience in the equipment to make an educated guess. Bottom line is it's your choice just how many parts you wish to replace and how many times you disassemble the linkage to add additional new parts when the last change still left too much play.
The specs for the steering gear box are in both the military and civilian manuals.
Perhaps you can visit a parts counter and measure the areas of concern on new parts and then make a determination. Or perhaps someone here has the new parts available to measure for you. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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