Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:01 pm Post subject: So, I got new rims for my M38A1
and they are 16" by 7", but combat rims. Now I am hearing that Combat rims weren't used after WW2. It's a little late to trade out the rims, I already painted them, and I hear they are a bit thicker. I also hear they were used on some early M38A1s. Does anyone know? Wes?
Another question I have, is were the tires round or square shouldered?
Joined: May 10, 2010 Posts: 615 Location: North Yorkshire, UK
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:51 am Post subject: m38a1 rims
As far as my limited knowledge tells me, the only combat rims used postwar were on the M38 prototypes. They should fit ok on your M38A1, though.
I believe the tyres should be rounded (NDCC pattern, not NDT). I think the M151's used the same tyres too. However, I've seen M38A1's with the NDT pattern, and they look fine. In the end, I guess it comes down to personal choice.
NDT's are easier (and cheaper) to obtain here in the UK, so I know what my M38 will be getting.
Wbr,
Owen. _________________ Owen
1951 US Air Force M38
1944 F-1 1/2-ton Airdrome Trailer
1940 C15 Chevrolet CMP 11-cab
1939 DKW KS200 Motorcycle
MVT # 19406
Joined: May 14, 2009 Posts: 972 Location: South Dakota
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:50 am Post subject:
Combat rims were WW2 only as far as I know. They were fitted later in the production of the MB's and GPW's. They have bolt together rims (a ring of bolts with round heads and nuts) You must take them apart to mount the tire. Most were bent trying to mount and dismount tires the normal fashion. They bend easily. They have square warning tags spot welded on them. 7 inch sounds too wide. I think they were 4.5 to 5 inch. I have a set on my MB. I had to have them straightened so they didn't wobble. The stock installation had tubes, flaps, and rim bead lock rings. I omitted the lock ring. They are cool looking and the biggest pain to work with. If you put a 700.00 16 tire M+S on the stock M38 rim, it rubs the frame at a full turn. 700:16 NDCC just clears. NON Directional Cross Country is the stock tire on the M38's. Good for all except ice and hard packed snow. If you drive in the last conditions, you will soon understand the fear of God! The wider the rim and tire, the less you can turn the steering wheel-----simple fact. Your choice! John
Joined: Nov 24, 2010 Posts: 1390 Location: Orem, UT
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:53 am Post subject:
Are you sure you are measuring the rim correctly? You take the measurement at the inside lip of the rim where the tire seats against. Measuring on the outer edges could add amost another 1.5". _________________ Brett
'51 M38
PHOTO DIARY OF MY BUILD
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:16 am Post subject:
My bad, maybe I should state that they actually hold 16" by 7" tires. These are the rims I got, from Kaiser Willies, and they call them "Military Combat Rims", but I don't think these are the same as the M38 ones. They say they fit 16" by 7" tires, and are for the M38A1.
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That's there generic 16 x 4.5 wheel that can mount up to a 7.50-16 tire. It is a fairly good copy of the late generic Willys Factory replacement 16 x 4.5" wheel. it will serve fine on an M38 but will obviously not fool any serious collectors.
This is the combat wheel used on WWII jeeps and the pilot model M38's.
Stock M38 and early M38A1 wheel
Stock M38 and early M38A1 wheel
Late M38A1, M170 & late service replacement wheel
The primary differences bewteen a civvy 16 x 4.5 wheel and the military wheel with the 1/8" hole is the offset and the safety bead. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
They are pretty close I think to the later style originals except for the the larger hole between the stud holes. They also have I think an E-Coat.
In case anyone is interested the 1962 USMC M38A1 I own has both the early style (2) and 3 of the later style rims. They appear to be original to the vehicle and not replacements.
As for authenticity nobody will know the difference.- - - except maybe somebody on here
Mixing and matching wheels was very common in the military. I doubt the 62 came from Willys with the early wheels mixed with the new. There is a difference in offsets between the two and mixing would have been seriously avoided on the assembly line. The new wheel was introduced in Mar 1962. What is the month of delivery of your A1? _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Apr 08, 2009 Posts: 249 Location: Mariposa, Ca.
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject:
I have been busy with my restoration so this post is a little late but might be of interest. My USMC M38A1 with a delivery date of 3/61, has the safety rim wheels and small hole. I also noticed they have KH stamped near the bolt pattern (for Kelsey Hayes) and when I took the old tires off, I found two rims still had a decal with the wheel part number. That number is KH-33995.
Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: 4.5 or 5
My wheels (3 of them) are the same as pictured for later 38s and A1s but they are 5" not 4.5" - they do have that small hole. I have 2 others that are 4.5" but the small hole isn't there - I guess those are civilian. Are you sure the 4.5" is right? The Coker specs for the Firestone Military NDCC - 700-16 are rims 4.5" min - 5.5" max if I remember. Right now I am out looking for another 5" to give me 4 of them and I'd use one of the 4.5" as the spare. I wonder if I should be looking for 2 more 4.5" rims and use one of the 5" as the spare. If the small hole signifies military I wonder what used the 5" rims. One way or the other I'll have some extra rims. _________________ 1952 M38
The 5" rim width with the 1/8" hole is a Willys pickup truck wheel. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:34 am Post subject: I doubt a half inch is going to be noticed
I will continue grinding, brushing, priming and painting the remaining 2 wheels as planned, and then mount the tires. I don't think 1/2" (4.5" vs 5") will be noticeable. The old Coats tire machine I found makes changing a tire a 15 minute process so if I someday find a parts jeep with the right wheels I'll make the switch. My jeep may look pretty right in parades, but with the MD Juan sheet metal that has little M38 inconsistencies and is missing a few M38 things like the cowl battery box and the hood cut-outs (which I have patterns and intend to recreate), missing all of the data plates, and is likely to be registered a CJ3B (if I can't find a clearer title), it can't be award winning if the judges are sharp eyed. It should be a fun vehicle for Sunday drives and parades. _________________ 1952 M38
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The wider the rim and tire, the less you can turn the steering wheel-----simple fact. Your choice! John
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