2nd gear getting stuck

[Bretto]

Here is a strange one. I went out for a drive today and found now that 2nd gear gets stuck and locks in place if I come to a stop with the clutch pedal pressed in while its in 2nd. So I am unable to move the cane to neutral to go to 1st gear to start out. Now if I make sure to pull it into neutral before stopping obviously I'm good. I can shift in and out of 2nd fine if I'm on the move. With the engine off and stopped, it doesn't matter, it shifts in and out of 2 with the clutch or no clutch engagement. I mimicked the situation in the garage with the transfer case in neutral and drove the transmission thru the gears and got the same symptom in 2nd. I have the inspection cover off so I can watch the clutch. As soon as the the clutch disc stops spinning, while in 2nd, I can't pull it out. Then I engage the clutch to get it going again and if I release the clutch and pull the cane before it stops, I can get it out of second.
Anyone ever heard of this symptoms before? For some reason, I want to point the finger at something in the synchro system, like maybe those 3 small dog pawls aren't moving or getting bound up. I don't know.
Oh and it's nothing in the shift tower, it moves smoothly and I also verified the forks are positioned right. Rev, 1st & 3rd function fine.
_________________
Brett
'51 M38
PHOTO DIARY OF MY BUILD

[frankthecrank58]

in tm9-1804b pg 20 para 13 section e describes your situation somewhat and maybe it's what's going on in your tranny. i thought synchro right away and the manual suggests it along with other likely causes. check it out. hope it's an easy fix.
_________________
Frank 1952 M38 Cdn CAR 52-31812,1952 M38 Cdn F100005, 1967 Jeepster, 1999 XJ, 1999 TJ " rubiCLONE"

[Bretto]

e. Gearshift Lever Stuck in Second or High Gear.
(1)Bent second and high shijter shaft. Remove and replace
damaged shifter shaft.
(2) Defective second and high speed synchronizer assembly. Remove
and replace defective synchronizer assembly.

Thanks for the reference Frank.

Sounds like the problem. I just fixed a front bearing leak and now this. Joy. I'm beginning to think that my new hobby is pulling the tranny. I got it down that I can remove the tranny & tcase in less than 1hr from the bottom. For some reason the part I hate the most is pulling the driveshafts.

Let me ask this, having not ever driven another single vehicle with a T90 to compare to, will the 2-N-3rd transition be a little tighter feel than compared to r-n-1st? I realize its a whole different mechanical set up between the 2. Mine always seemed a little snug. R-n-1st is like butter
_________________
Brett
'51 M38
PHOTO DIARY OF MY BUILD

[wesk]

Clutch drag amounts and gear spin down have a lot to do with shifting feel. Of the twenty or so T90 boxes I've driven over the last 45 years 1-2 has always seemed a wee bit tighter then 2-3. Unless of course the synchro is on the way out. Then moving into third from second often meets a bit more resistance.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[whydahdvr]

Good to know.
I don't know if anyone watches Wheeler Dealers on the Velocity Channel but I just saw an episode where they bought a Willys MB WWII jeep in CA and shipped it to England. They had an issue (crunch) when shifting into 3rd and replaced it with a newly rebuilt tranny from some vendor in CA. It was interesting and I was wondering if they had hit up any of our MB/GPW or M38-type sites for more info.

[Cacti_Ken]

A few years before I even thought about storing the M38 I did some work on the transmission. After I put it back together it would not shift at all unless I put a lot of force on the shifter. Once I got it to shift, it was still tight. I used it like that a few years. Then I got into restoration mode. I disassembled it again and found one of the syncronizer plates had come out of it's position.





_________________
Tropical Veteran
35th Inf. Reg. "CACTI" 4th I.D. VN
Amateur Radio K5XOM

[Bretto]

What are you showing out of place? Is the spring on the outside of the pawl?
_________________
Brett
'51 M38
PHOTO DIARY OF MY BUILD

[Cacti_Ken]

The 2nd photo is showing the part (the small plate) just one of them, that was causing the problem. In my case, one of the plates had some how moved forward out of the position it should have normally been in.

The 1st photo is where it is normally installed. The plate being out of position caused the 2nd&3rd gear sliding clutch to bind up.

Your second question about spring, I'm not sure what you are asking.
_________________
Tropical Veteran
35th Inf. Reg. "CACTI" 4th I.D. VN
Amateur Radio K5XOM

[Bretto]

I was thinking you we're saying the plate in pic one was out of position. I was trying to figure out how that was since it looked right. I thought I might of seen the spring that keeps them in place out of place. It almost looks like a spring wire there at the end of the plate on its right end.
_________________
Brett
'51 M38
PHOTO DIARY OF MY BUILD

[Bretto]

My guess was correct. The 3rd gear synchro was spinning past the pawls in the hub. And when the pawls did line back up, it was then that I was able to pull it out of 2nd. This was due to the pawls from getting chewed up. When I put this together over 1.5 years ago, I used a small parts kit and I do seem to recall from the out the gate, the pawls and hub shifting seemed a little stiff. As you can see, they have been dug into by the hub. I believe its to be due to to stiffer radial springs and poor materials of the pawl themselves that I got in the small parts kit. I save my other ones and for comparison, I placed them in there and they shifted smoothly. Side by side, I can definitely seem a quality difference. Also my older radial springs have a smoother give to them. Heed the warning again, don't buy junk over seas stuff. Looking for new parts rings, pawls and springs now.........





_________________
Brett
'51 M38
PHOTO DIARY OF MY BUILD