Water In Transfer Case

cjohle · Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:48 pm Post subject: Water In Transfer Case

I checked my fluids the other day and there is water in the transfer case. The thing is my jeep has no top and sat in the rain for a couple of days right before I checked it. So, I would guess it leaked in through the floor pans or boots on the shifters, right?

I bought new boots right after I got the jeep, but the boot over the transmission shifter doesn't fit. One of the POs attached a piece of plywood to the floor pan to allow for some height on the boot but it still didn't fit all the way down.

So, I have it in the garage now (wife isn't happy) until I get it drained and refilled. For the longer term, I'm not sure how to troubleshoot the presence of the water. I don't know what the boot is supposed to look like where it attaches to the floor pan so I'm not sure why that plywood is there . . .

The issue I keep having when trying to put some of this jeep back to original or fix 'bubba mods' is that I don't have a frame of reference to a lot of these things. I need some detailed photos so I know what's missing, modified, etc. I have the manuals, but the black and white drawings don't always help much.

At any rate, any help would be greatly appreciated!
thanks,
Casey
_________________
Casey M38A1

wesk · Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:11 pm Post subject:

The military tranny shifter tower has the boot clamped directly to the can structure and the lower 1/4th of the boot simply rides inside the hole in the floor pan. The boot on yours is the externally mounted boot for a civvy tranny. The pan below your boot for a civvy jeep has holes drilled in it for a retainer plate for that boot. The pan for the M38 & M38A1 has no screw holes drilled around the cane shaft hole and the military cane and it's boot projects through the hole in the pan.

A search of this board would have yielded this: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7717&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

The tranny cane panel on this M38A1 floor has a rolled down edge in the opening and no retainer screw holes.

This illustration from your TM 8014 makes it very clear what you should have in your jeep.

From my M38 Parts sub-album:

The military tranny cover pan.

The military tranny cane boot

The military installation
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

4x4M38 · Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:52 pm Post subject:

I guess I'm missing something.

He is asking about water in the transfer case as well as the boots.

I don't see how water can get into the transfer case from above
and certainly not below. The unit should be waterproof, if the vent fitting
and line is intact.

Wes?
_________________
Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

cjohle · Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject:

Right - I was asking about the boot just in case, by some weird chance, water was seeping in from the top.

Thats why I'm stumped - I don't know how it got in there unless it was through the vent. There is no pipe. The PO removed the fuel pump and installed an electric pump. At this point, I'm trying to figure out what I'm looking at to find the vent so I can see whats going on with it.
_________________
Casey M38A1

4x4M38 · Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:37 pm Post subject:

Well I hope you have had it under a tarp the last couple of days!

Can you see where the vent line fitting is in Wes' pic from the manual?

Are you sure the fitting is in place and the line is cut, or if there is a cap there?

If the PO removed the vent line and fitting it is possible that water may have run down into the boot, and back under the floor onto the top of the transfer and into that hole.

Just fishing at this point....
_________________
Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

4x4M38 · Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:40 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure you can see up under and onto the top of the transfer but there should be enough room between the top and the floor to reach up from underneath and feel around to see if there is anything sticking up aft of the transfer canes. If not, maybe you can feel for a hole?

I can't remember but I don't think it's that tight. And it's dark. And wet.

Laughing

_________________
Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

cjohle · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:22 am Post subject:

So here is a picture of what I think is the vent with the cap on it.

Here is a video of me moving the cap around:
https://youtu.be/35B5HWtvU-U?list=UUWHpqr6L5Npmc6qus-A8O6w

That look familiar to anyone?
_________________
Casey M38A1

4x4M38 · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:04 am Post subject:

Casey,
I'm no expert but that looks like a vent cap to me.

With it in place I just don't see how you could get rainwater in there.

When was the last time you checked the oil in the transfer case?
_________________
Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

skyjeep50 · Member Joined: Feb 20, 2007 Posts: 606 Location: Illinois

The pic of your transmission doesn't show the top of your boot but that is where the water may have gotten into your trans. The military boot has clamps around the shifter cane and the cane socket isolating the top of the cane socket from the elements - water, snow, dirt, etc. as shown in the diagrams. Without that seal, rain water will just run down the shifter cane past the boot and into the trans through the cane socket. The cane just sits in the socket, there is no seal other than the boot. The transfer shifters have seals where the plungers enter the trans case. I doubt much water enters the trans through the breather cap unless you submerge the jeep. If it has to sit outside, drape a heavy weight garbage bag over the shifters.
_________________
1951 M38

wesk · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:45 am Post subject:

Also keep in mind that whatever is in the tranny will eventually migrate to the transfer.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

4x4M38 · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:40 am Post subject:

Ok, Casey,
There's a lead. You said you had water in your transfer case, but did not mention the transmission.

Is there water in the transmission as well?
_________________
Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

cjohle · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:36 pm Post subject:

not that I could tell. I will drain them both and post back.
_________________
Casey M38A1

ChuckW · Member Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 210 Location: Alabama

It's pretty amazing how much water can enter the transmission through the shift cane if the boot is missing or incorrect.
_________________
Chuck W.
Dixie Division MVC #002
1952 M38/M100
M274A2
1964 CJ3B

cjohle · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:22 pm Post subject:

Just out of curiosity, was that thing i videoed/took the pic of actually the vent? Could anyone tell?
_________________
Casey M38A1

wesk · Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:32 pm Post subject:

Yes. The 54 & on M38A1's left Willys without all the integral fording plumbing so you have the little wiggle cap vent cover which has a check valve in it. Your gas tank on 54 & up M38A1's will have a large vent valve instead of a plumbing connection to the air cleaner.

In this M38A1 fording vent system illustration you can see they show either a union/nipple fitting or the little capped vent valve on the fuel pump and the transfer.

Here you can see the bell shaped air vent valve that replaces the plumbing to the air cleaner on the 54 & up m38A1's.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php


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