Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:24 pm Post subject: I finally got to test out all my wiring of the directionals
And they actually are all right, and all work! Heater too! Big thanks to Wes, who make the job possible!
But, I do have one issue. The turn signal, when the left signal is on, flashes heartily. The right seems to stick, as in it is solid for a minute or two sometimes, then it starts flashing. Any recommendations?
And finally, the little B/O light beside the passenger taillight, I want to feed into the turn signal. Does anyone know who sells a small red lens for the BO marker light?
Non-symetrical turn signals can lead to misinterpretation and rear ender collisions. I would not recommend making the single small BO stop a flashing right turn signal.
Two things outside the relay box can cause the right side to be slow. Poor Grounds and different size lamp filaments. Clean paint off all contact areas of light housings. Make sure the bulbs are the same number and same manufacturer. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject:
Alright, I'll take your advice and not do anything to the B/O light. Is there a separate ground for the right signal? The right rear taillight is new (I replaced the B/O light with a driver side 3 connection so I could get the directionals). The little light on the turn signal switch, the one mounted on the steering column, runs slower for the right hand signal than the left, and that is even before the rear turn signal is plugged in.
I have another electrical question too. Does anyone know who sells the military O-ring terminal connectors? I have civilian ones on my ignition switch, and the metal is way thinner than the military ones.
Flashers and relays respond to the amount of electrical load placed on them. If you unplug one lamp it reduces the load and the flasher or relay will cycle slower. This is why I suggested you check your grounds. A new light assembly bolted to the jeep does not guarantee any ground at all. Bad ground means less current flow means slow flasher relay.
Have you removed the paint from the bolted areas of both the light assemblies and the tub? Have you installed the correct external star lock washers on each mounting stud? This is necessary to insure a good ground.
All the pretty painted stuff does not ground itself. The paint is an insulator. You must physically break through the paint on both objects to get a ground. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject:
I don't have the star washers, but I can put them in instead of the lock washers I now have. I'm just wondering why, measuring with a circuit tester, the leads not hooked up to the lights, the right side has a solid light for a minute or two, then starts flashing. It's not slow to light up, just to start flashing. The left side is perfect, and the signal box actually makes a louder "flasher noise" when I have it switched over to that side.
The right side is behaving like it has a reduced load. That is what you are describing. Take an ohm meter and confirm the quality of the ground for each lamp socket.
Or pull the lid on your relay box and turn the left signal on and mark the relay that's clicking then turn the right signal on and mark that relay that's clicking. Now TURN THE MASTER SWITCH OFF AND DISCONNECT THE BATTERIES Now swap the two relays and try it again. If the problem moves to the left then my original analysis was not correct though it is the more common cause of your symptom. Also be aware that since you elected to use the old relay box military system that parts for them are very hard to find. [/b][/u] _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject:
So, running the turn signals, the left side was strong as ever, the right side was even more flaky than before. It wouldn't even light up, I would jiggle the directional switch gently, and it would come on. So I was thinking it was something in the steering column mounted switch. I popped the hood, and used a circuit tester to see what current was reaching the terminal on the directional box for the right signal. Suddenly, the clicked would become quicker and louder, like it was on the left side. That leads me to believe it's a ground issue like Wes suggested. I then checked the directional box ground, and the column mounted directional switch ground. I sanded off more metal, used star washers, and made sure the grounds were good. No difference. Is there another ground I should be looking for?
Your circuit tester added the necessary current draw to increase the flasher's rate. So you need to continue checking all grounds associated with that side's lights.
Also, did you check the lamp numbers as I mention early on to insure they are the same number, the same manufacturer and the same wattage? _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:09 am Post subject:
I don't have any of the front end lights hooked up. The grill was removed when the engine was pulled. That only leaves the rear, and the lights in it came when I bought the right tailight maybe 4 months ago. (It's new old stock, a replacement for the B/O light). Do you know another ground I should be looking for? The one off the directional box, and the one off the column mounted turn signal I've both checked, and strengthened, so I don't think it could be either of them. Is there a ground associated with just the right side?
Joined: Feb 20, 2007 Posts: 606 Location: Illinois
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:40 am Post subject:
My M38A1 has the electronic turn signal system and started to "hang" sometimes when signaling a turn. Turn light would come on but no blinking. Kept getting worse with time. No grounding issues I could detect. So I changed the electronic module and immediately the flashers worked normally. It would appear the module was dying a slow death. _________________ 1951 M38
The other grounds you keep asking about are the ones I keep telling you about. Every lamp socket has to be checked. Every light assembly mounting bolt has to be removed and checked for good bare metal contact.
Have you even tried the easy trouble shoot step I posted above about swapping relays in the box? Have you opened the box to confirm all is clean and tight inside? _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:04 am Post subject:
I haven't tried opening the box. Seeing as to how I have it bolted to the firewall, and all the connections attached to it, I'm afraid at what a nightmare that is going to be! If the relay works fine when I touch a circuit testor to it, doesn't that lead me to believe it's a ground issue? I can pull that right rear taillight, double check and enhance the ground, and then bolt it back up, although like I said, with the left light not even bolted in place, the signal was fine on that side. The pulse of electricity was steady, I just had to ground the headlight unit for the bulbs to come on.
One more time! You are not grasping the principal of electrical loading and flasher type relays. Some relays will just flash slower than others with the same load. If this is the case then only a flasher relay replacement will solve the issue. That is why I suggested you swap relays in the box to see if the problem follows the relay.
So far you keep telling us you touched the tester to the right relay and it went faster and I keep trying to tell you that is normal reaction to the increased load.
I have been pressing you to make sure all grounds are perfect yet you only play with one ground at a time and come back saying the right side is too slow. Again I suggest you completely review all the light assemblies grounds, and install all the light assemblies and their bulbs and then test the flasher box with a full normal load. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject:
I admit, I'm not an expert on electric wiring! If you have an art or tattooing question, ask away, but not wiring.
So, that said, maybe I am being hasty. The bulbs are right, I checked, and the grounds on the rear taillights are right. The front turn signals, however, are not hooked up. My vehicle has the old style, swing out grill, and it was pulled when the engine was pulled. I take it, everything might be fine, once the front two connections are hooked up, as that will increase the load? Regardless, I should wait until that happens to further evaluate the relay?
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