Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:40 am Post subject: were all the M38A1 frames
boxed in on the front? _________________ 1952 M38A1
Marine core reinforced rear bumper, military transistorized turn signal upgrade, arctic heater, 11" drum brakes, 200L PTO winch, Huffy overdrive, deep water fording kit, RT 68 vehicle mounted radio, Trac Locs front and rear.
www.danhenk.com
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:50 am Post subject:
so if a frame looks almost exactly like this, but the front ends aren't boxed in, what is it?
_________________ 1952 M38A1
Marine core reinforced rear bumper, military transistorized turn signal upgrade, arctic heater, 11" drum brakes, 200L PTO winch, Huffy overdrive, deep water fording kit, RT 68 vehicle mounted radio, Trac Locs front and rear.
www.danhenk.com
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject:
It's my replacement frame, which I was told came off a M38A1. It has the machine gun plate, just not the boxed front frame ends.
_________________ 1952 M38A1
Marine core reinforced rear bumper, military transistorized turn signal upgrade, arctic heater, 11" drum brakes, 200L PTO winch, Huffy overdrive, deep water fording kit, RT 68 vehicle mounted radio, Trac Locs front and rear.
www.danhenk.com
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject:
aside from the boxed in front, what is the difference? _________________ 1952 M38A1
Marine core reinforced rear bumper, military transistorized turn signal upgrade, arctic heater, 11" drum brakes, 200L PTO winch, Huffy overdrive, deep water fording kit, RT 68 vehicle mounted radio, Trac Locs front and rear.
www.danhenk.com
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject:
so, what was the point of boxing the front end? And if it is an early CJ5 frame, why go to the trouble of altering the front of the frame, but not removing the machine gun mount? I had a 1973 CJ5 18 years ago, and I could swear the whole frame was boxed. _________________ 1952 M38A1
Marine core reinforced rear bumper, military transistorized turn signal upgrade, arctic heater, 11" drum brakes, 200L PTO winch, Huffy overdrive, deep water fording kit, RT 68 vehicle mounted radio, Trac Locs front and rear.
www.danhenk.com
Never saw a stock 55 or 56 CJ5 frame with the machine gun plate. Saw CJ5 frames with a machine gun plate added to look like a M38A1.
The differences are several in some cases and it all depends on the year of the CJ5 frame. 55/56 CJ5 had the same reversed front spring shackle arrangement as the M38A1 but the CJ5 frame had a battery tray right front and did not have the voltage regulator tray brackets.
Frame boxing has always been assumed to be the easiest way to strengthen a frame. The rock crawlers in the 60's almost always boxed their civvy frames the entire length in some cases. They also cherished the M38 whjen they became surplus since the front half of the M38 frame was already boxed.
My money says your frame was a CJ5 frame made to look lik a M38A1 frame. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jun 25, 2008 Posts: 583 Location: Kern Co.
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject:
Look at the welds. It should be consistant with the rest of the welds on the Jeep. If it looks too nice or too crappy that's a dead giveaway. _________________ '53 M38A1 X2
Joined: Mar 28, 2008 Posts: 353 Location: BrOoKlYn
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:51 pm Post subject:
Deadguy wrote:
so, what was the point of boxing the front end?
the boxed front horns of the 38A1 frame also provided mounting holes for the "elusive" Ramsey 50R winch bracket/winch configuration.
is a portion of your frame boxed on the left side by the Master Cylinder?
have you got a pic of the rear crossmember?
- is the Rear crossmember secured with to the frame with solid rivets, bolts or Rivet / Nut combination? _________________ Always Looking for M170 Parts and bits
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 891 Location: New Hampshire
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:57 am Post subject:
wesk wrote:
Never saw a stock 55 or 56 CJ5 frame with the machine gun plate. Saw CJ5 frames with a machine gun plate added to look like a M38A1.
The differences are several in some cases and it all depends on the year of the CJ5 frame. 55/56 CJ5 had the same reversed front spring shackle arrangement as the M38A1 but the CJ5 frame had a battery tray right front and did not have the voltage regulator tray brackets.
Frame boxing has always been assumed to be the easiest way to strengthen a frame. The rock crawlers in the 60's almost always boxed their civvy frames the entire length in some cases. They also cherished the M38 whjen they became surplus since the front half of the M38 frame was already boxed.
My money says your frame was a CJ5 frame made to look lik a M38A1 frame.
Wes you need to go onto the early cj5 page. Been several documented cases of an early (1955) with the machine gun mount. I know of one in NH that has been in the same family since new, with original paint that has the machine gun mount. Notice how his frame is setup for the front shackle reversal that is also a carry over to the very early cj5 from the m38a1.
I own 3 CJ5's and I have beento the Early CJ5 page many times over the years. In none of those documented cases was there any proof when the machine gun mount pad got put on. It makes no sense for Willys to modify an engineering drawing to remove the front frame boxing for the CJ5 without also removing the other M38A1 specific frame items. It's always about production costs with any company and that dictates leaving any uneeded parts off a new model's frame. If one likes to assume that every Willys new model jeep always used the earlier jeep's frame for a while then the front rails on the suspect frames would still be boxed. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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