Create an account Home  ·  ·  Forums  ·  ·  Articles  ·  ·  Downloads  ·  ·  Photo Gallery  
Login
Nickname

Password

Don't have an account yet? You can create one here.

Navigation
· Home
· Article Archive
· Article Submit
· Downloads
· FAQ
· Forums
· Members List
· Photo Gallery
· Private Messages
· Web Links
· Your Account

Search Articles



Forums

Wiper motor...which is the correct one?
Lead additive, one more question.
M31C mount with or without replica weapon
Backfire and Hesitation
Wanted: Steering column and shaft for M38-1952, or late CJ2A
2024 CT. MILITARY VEHICLE SHOW AND FLEA MARKET- JUNE 15,2024
Brake Line
How to link full size photos in posts
Clutch release bearing support cast tab for return spring
T90 case replacement required?

Willys M Jeeps Forums


willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - Two pieces sleeves????
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Two pieces sleeves????

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    willysmjeeps.com Forum Index -> Technical Knowledge Base
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
baios
Member


Joined: Jul 29, 2011
Posts: 159
Location: LAMIA GREECE

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:57 am    Post subject: Two pieces sleeves???? Reply with quote

Shocked Shocked Shocked The problem started when suddenly i saw "milky oil"
My first thoyght was that maybe a bad head gasket Confused Confused Confused I took all the engine off and send it to my mechanic.... after a few days he called me.... Confused Confused Confused Confused He said that the problem seems to be more complicated!!!!! I said why?? and told me that someone (the company that i made the restoration) put me two pieces of sleeves Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked That is the first time that he is seeing...... Now the problem is leaking from there Shocked Shocked Shocked


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 16225
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like your block's cylinder bores had issues with leakage from the water jacket area and your restorer elected to sleeve the bores. I don't understand the two piece sleeve attempt. Sleeving has always been an option when builders have cylinder's that exceed available piston oversizes. But not two pieces. I would not waste my time and money on a block with compromised cylinder walls allowing water leakage into the bores.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
baios
Member


Joined: Jul 29, 2011
Posts: 159
Location: LAMIA GREECE

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confused finding another block isnt easy here in greece....so if i put off all those sleeves and put new ones (not in two pieces) should fix my problem? Crying or Very sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 16225
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might fix your problem. A correct one piece sleeve may still leak water at the bottom edge.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
baios
Member


Joined: Jul 29, 2011
Posts: 159
Location: LAMIA GREECE

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and how can we stop the leak at all??? Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 16225
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Choose an engine shop that knows what they are doing. Deliver the engine to them. Their initial advice will probably be what I have said above, "Find another engine". Then ask them is there any other way they can repair the leak. They will probably remove that 2 piece sleeve and inspect the cylinder wall itself, only then can you be offered a final intelligent choice.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
danrothe2001
Member


Joined: Oct 24, 2011
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure that it is a 2 piece sleeve? I am not so sure that someone did not just put a short sleeve in instead of going all the way to the bottom. Irregardless, the block should be able to be salvaged. I have successfully sleeved blocks that had holes blown in the parent bore. A few tips on proper installation. The reason that you are leaking is because the sleeve terminates in the middle of the bore. The bore will flex and lose seal and leak. The sleeve MUST go all the way to the bottom past the water jacket to where the block gets solid again. However don’t bore all the way through unless you are installing a flanged sleeve. You need something to hold the sleeve in place, either a flange on top or a step on the bottom. Next is proper press. I have used as little as .001 inch if I am just fixing a flaw in the bore and the block is still intact. I will use about .002 inch if there is porosity or a small crack to help seal better. With a major crack I will go to .003 inch as you are really only holding it at the top and bottom. Green loctite on the bore and sleeve both before driving the sleeve in will pretty much guarantee a seal. Again, make sure that you find a shop that is experienced in installing sleeves and you will be fine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
baios
Member


Joined: Jul 29, 2011
Posts: 159
Location: LAMIA GREECE

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks s lot that was very helpful......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jake138
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Nov 18, 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Connecticut

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danrothe2001 wrote:
Are you sure that it is a 2 piece sleeve? I am not so sure that someone did not just put a short sleeve in instead of going all the way to the bottom. Irregardless, the block should be able to be salvaged. I have successfully sleeved blocks that had holes blown in the parent bore. A few tips on proper installation. The reason that you are leaking is because the sleeve terminates in the middle of the bore. The bore will flex and lose seal and leak. The sleeve MUST go all the way to the bottom past the water jacket to where the block gets solid again. However don’t bore all the way through unless you are installing a flanged sleeve. You need something to hold the sleeve in place, either a flange on top or a step on the bottom. Next is proper press. I have used as little as .001 inch if I am just fixing a flaw in the bore and the block is still intact. I will use about .002 inch if there is porosity or a small crack to help seal better. With a major crack I will go to .003 inch as you are really only holding it at the top and bottom. Green loctite on the bore and sleeve both before driving the sleeve in will pretty much guarantee a seal. Again, make sure that you find a shop that is experienced in installing sleeves and you will be fine.


To piggyback off Dan's post, I agree that there should have been a shoulder at the bottom of the bore for the sleeve to seat firmly against. Since it appears that your block has been bored straight through, this means that in order to now bore a shoulder into the bottom, your machine shop would have to cut an even larger diameter, and the question arises of how much larger you actually can go before you lose integrity of the cylinder walls entirely.

Here's a Youtube video of "Team G503" installing cylinder sleeves correctly into an L134 block. They do not specify how much the bore was cut oversize, and the link to the Ron Fitzgerald Jeep Parts where the cylinder sleeve was supplied from does not list an outside diameter of the sleeve. The block was bored to a shoulder at the bottom, the sleeve was a press fit of .0015" to .002", and this particular engine builder chose to lubricate/seal the sleeve to the block using Duplicolor clear engine enamel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn2QwP1UR6M
_________________
Jake, Central CT
51 M38 s/n 35627
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 16225
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind that boring diameters/sleeve thicknesses are also limited by available piston oversizes when not sleeving back to standard bores.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jake138
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Nov 18, 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Connecticut

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wesk wrote:
Keep in mind that boring diameters/sleeve thicknesses are also limited by available piston oversizes when not sleeving back to standard bores.


Absolutely. A quick Google search found some anecdotal evidence of an L134 being bored .080" oversize without sleeves. I personally would have concerns for block integrity at anything past .030" without sleeves, however, if someone truly wishes to source .080" oversize pistons, my hat and heart goes out to thee.
_________________
Jake, Central CT
51 M38 s/n 35627
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 16225
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key word in my notes was not referencing the biggest bore. It references the questionable availability of the larger oversized pistons. In other words choose your overbore and sleeve thickness based on what pistons you can find.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
baios
Member


Joined: Jul 29, 2011
Posts: 159
Location: LAMIA GREECE

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

more bad news from my shop..
Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused

when the firstntime put the sleeves....they broke the water pasages sooooo now what????
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 16225
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not toss good many at a block in that condition. Time to find a truly rebuildable and reliable block.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    willysmjeeps.com Forum Index -> Technical Knowledge Base All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group
Forums ©

 



PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.