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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - Ditching the Fording
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Ditching the Fording
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w30bob
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Joined: Mar 22, 2017
Posts: 145
Location: Great Mills, MD

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject: Ditching the Fording Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

I'm trying to figure out if what's on my M38A1 is supposed to be there in terms of the fording system.......or in this case LACK of a fording system. Digging thru the ORD I'm looking at the PCV valve. I don't have one. I've got the "ventilator" or the cup looking thing with the screw in the middle, but instead of the fitting pointing to the left and having a PCV attached, mine points down and has a pipe on it with a slant cut at the bottom. So it just vents the crankcase to the atmosphere. The ORD says the PCV was ditched after a certain SN and replaced with a HOSE. But there's no pic. Is my pipe the HOSE? I haven't seen any pics of such a setup when I search Google Images for M38A1 engine, but it would seem most of the A1's should be set up this way........what gives?

Same thing goes for the fuel tank vent. On mine there is no pipe that runs to the air cleaner. Instead I've got a little trumpet shaped thingy attached directly to the round piece on top of the tank. I don't know what it's called so I can't look it up in the ORD. No picture of it in the ORD other than in Fig 3-12 where it's in shadow on the M170 fuel tank. But no line pointing it out with a part number. Can someone tell me what it's called so I can see at what SN it started being used?

I haven't checked the master cylinder yet, but I'm assuming it has something like the tank to vent......or just a hole in the cap, as there is no line running to the air cleaner for it either. The ORD says there's a fig 12-5, but it seems to be missing in action. So.........can someone tell me how the MC is vented when there is no fording stuff installed?

thanks,
bob
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 12889
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Late 52 the provisions for fording were no longer installed by Willys on the M38A1. The Army had Willys build a kit to add the capability in the field when desired. But the PCV Valve stays on the jeep. The two fording valves are left off as is the vent line plumbing dedicated to fording only. All this is readily discernable if you closely review the ORD 9 and follow the vehicle serial number cutoffs for fording vent equipped vs non-fording vent equipped M38A1's. You can also search or google the many posts already in the archives here on this topic.

If you visit my photo album (the second one) in Member's Albums I covered this in great detail:

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album245&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=1
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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wilfreeman
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Joined: Mar 13, 2006
Posts: 943
Location: Richburg, SC

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You didn't say what year your a1 is. USMC contract a1s had the fording valves and plumbing installed. Your pipe coming off of the side valve cover bell would be a "bubba" modification. I couldn't find a picture of one on the f head engine, but I know they used to have them on 50's cars and trucks.
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Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
1968 M35a2
'51 M100 trailer, '52 M100 trailer chassis, '90 M101a1 trailer, 1968 M105a2 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 12889
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you done the research yet I posted the links for?

Quote:
The ORD says the PCV was ditched after a certain SN and replaced with a HOSE. But there's no pic. Is my pipe the HOSE? I haven't seen any pics of such a setup when I search Google Images for M38A1 engine, but it would seem most of the A1's should be set up this way........what gives?


That is incorrect. The ORD does not say the PCV valve was ditched at any point. The rubber hose you refer to was used to replace the fording valve at the side valve cover NOT the PCV valve. Have you looked at all the photos in my album yet?


This is the 51 & 52 M38A1 vent system plumbing. The hose you mentioned replace the manual fording valve "Item L" not the PCV valve "Item S"


This show early vs late
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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w30bob
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Joined: Mar 22, 2017
Posts: 145
Location: Great Mills, MD

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

Matt.......sorry about that.......it's a '55.

Wes.......no, not yet. Been a bit busy at work and it's hatching time at the home farm, so my computer time is limited. Will get to it though. Thanks for the links.

I just tried to upload some pics, but Flikr is having issues right now.....will try again tomorrow.

Will shout back soon.

bob

[/img]
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w30bob
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Joined: Mar 22, 2017
Posts: 145
Location: Great Mills, MD

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still can't get Flikr to work, but here's a link to exactly what I have on my engine. Guy says it's for M38A1.....but he's probably wrong.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Willys-MA-M38A1-jeep-Valve-Spring-Cover-Assembly-Ventilator-Gasket-/131990726477?hash=item1ebb42a74d:g:ajoAAOSwcUBYGcHH&vxp=mtr

later,
bob
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4x4M38
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Joined: May 30, 2014
Posts: 2379
Location: Texas Hill Country

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep he's wrong. There's a lot of that on eBay.

Wes' last photo above shows what you should have.
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Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 12889
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many on line photo accounts won't let you post a photo publicly to another web site. Some will allow it but you must specify public access. Otherwise anything you try to link will demand a password to the account from the web site requesting the photo before they will share the photo. I always advise our members to just use our web sites photo albums for their jeep photos and linking them to your posts is then simple.

On out board index page post your album request on the bottom board.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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w30bob
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Joined: Mar 22, 2017
Posts: 145
Location: Great Mills, MD

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understood. Here's the pics just cuz everyone likes to look at pics........and I need practice uploading. And yes, I know the pump is also wrong.

Can you tell me what the tank vent thingy is called in the second pic?

thanks
bob



Cool
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wesk
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your top photo shows a "Road Draft Tube" used before the advent of the PCV valve which came on scene around 1942. The road draft tube was still found on some Willys engines in the late 40's as well. If that is what you have now you will need a lot of parts to make her look stock including the correct side valve cover ventilator A6919 . Corrected typo.

The bottom photo shows the post MD23359 "Vent filter / Plug" at the tank vent. When you get seriously into researching the ORD 9 SNL G-758 you will find it on page 95 where it tells you it is used on serials after MD23359.

Again, I emphasize a serious review of your ORD 9 is Necessary for you to truly grasp and understand the transition from fording equipped to non-fording equipped M38A1's at serial MD23359.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php


Last edited by wesk on Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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w30bob
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Joined: Mar 22, 2017
Posts: 145
Location: Great Mills, MD

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Wes,

Thanks for the info. Well........seems everything I look at on this jeep needs to be replaced, so this just adds to the list. I am going to get it back to original mechanically, but it may take a little time. I've got a shiny new YS950S and correct fuel pump on the way.....as well as the crossover tube kit. I've got the vent line kit here along with a bag of brass fittings. I'll keep my eyes peeled for a side valve cover, PCV, and the rest of the little bits I still need.

Appreciate all the help!

regards,
bob
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4x4M38
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Joined: May 30, 2014
Posts: 2379
Location: Texas Hill Country

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a couple spare ventilator fittings with the threaded hole.

Wes, what is different between the valve covers? Wouldn't you just
swap the one he has end for end?

Take care,
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Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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w30bob
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Joined: Mar 22, 2017
Posts: 145
Location: Great Mills, MD

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wes, Brian,

Not sure I understand why I'd need a new valve side cover. According to the illustrations whether there is a fording valve or a hose replacing it....the connection to the side cover is at the hole closest to the radiator.....same as mine is now. Looking around online the side cover for the F134 and L134 is the same part.

thanks,
bob
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wesk
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Posts: 12889
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The period in that sentence came to early. I corrected the typo omission.


This is how yours should look. Note: The PCV valve is still there at the left of the hose that was used to replace the manual vent valve.





You need to limit the size of photos you post to 250K file sizes.
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8670


I'll open a photo album for you to load your photos to. This way as long as you post the first size it will be within posting limits.


Here's your album:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album536&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Here's the rules:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=498

Here's the tutorial for loading your album:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album53&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Here's the tutorial for posting your photos:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8670
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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45auto
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Joined: Apr 06, 2005
Posts: 83
Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The side cover for the M38A1 will have a small clip spot welded to the bottom of the cover to clip the vent line into from the fuel pump to the bell housing. You can see the clip on the bottom of the valve cover in the picture Wes posted showing the hose taking the place of the fording valve. Otherwise, all the valve covers fit and will work.
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Harold W.
MVPA #6833
1945 GPW
1950 CJV-35/U
1951 M38 1952 M38
1962 USMC Contract M38A1
1953 Strick M100 1967 Johnson M416
1968 CJ5 4-Speed 1969 CJ5 V6
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