Joined: Mar 17, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:55 pm Post subject: M38 Identification
Hi,
Firstly I apologise that I can't post any photo's at this time. I bought a M38 a while ago and am slowly tackling it. I started the survey but have misplaced it and will need to start again (sorry Wes). As the vehicle doesn't have any serial number plates in either of the two locations I am working with what I can find so far. Researching Engine serial numbers and casting number has left me a little confused the engine serial number is RMC63753 which seems too low for the casting 804380-W-12-D-P5. Is that right? There is also a maintenance tag on the block from the 603COMBWKSPEME and job number/date 40M68. I think that the workshop is a Commonwealth service (possible Pakistan) having the EME designation. I was told from the gentlemen that I bought it from that he brought it with him from Burma to Australia. I started checking the paint layers and have found top to base green, beige/sand, grey, black. The vehicle runs but needs new fuel tank and lines and has had very little modification done to it. Any advice comments and thoughts would be appreciated.
Joined: Mar 17, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:06 pm Post subject: M38 CDN?
I hadn't considered that my M38 may be a CDN build, however after advice from Wes I a look at the front left chassis for the tell tale serial number. Under some think paint there is a pretty clear 38500. From what I have read this should be preceded by a 51- however while the serial is very clear I can't see any trace of the 51-. I believe this serial would indicate a US built vehicle transferred to Canadian service late '51, is that correct?
The "38500" number stamped on the top front left frame is in the typical location for the Canadian CAR/CFR numbers that were normally prefixed with the year 51 or 52. This number, even if the year is missing, does not match the range of any known CAR/CFR numbers. However by coincidence it falls within the range of Willys serial numbers I have observed for the October 1951 Willys M38s that Canada acquired (observed range 373xx to 388xx). During rebuild the Willys serial number may have been stamped on the frame? It is unlikely a Canadian M38 unless it has other characteristic features, in particular the rear-mounted convoy light and dash-mounted switch.... Brian
Eric, is there a noticeable reason for the shackle bracket hole not being visible in your serial photo? _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Mar 17, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:19 am Post subject:
Thanks Brian and Wes, no, no reason just that the hole is just out of shot. Time is at a premium at the moment but I had a look at the rear of the jeep last night and can't see a convoy lamp or evidence that one was there and removed. Was the stamping of the Willys serial number a common or otherwise practice?
I will take some more photo's of the tool box dash and fire wall if that might help. _________________ Eric M38
Willys stamped the WWII frame rail with the serial but none of the postwar Willys or Kaiser jeeps had a serial on the frame from the factory.
Some of the military depots would stamp a copy of the serial there during depot rebuilds. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Mar 17, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject:
I was able to get some quick shots of the Dash/Instrument panel and the front of the tool box. The 'Jeep' lettering is clear on the tool box so puts to bed the CDN build. There were no information plates with the vehicle either on the dash or on the panel behind the passenger seat. Is there enough occasions of the serial number being stamped on the frame to accept 38500 as the vehicle serial number?
Hello. I am going through the same adventure trying to date my M38 with no plates remaining.
1: Buy the book, very very helpful!
2: Ive learned enough that I will offer that your body is a "late production" version. The large hole in the dash is an indicator of this.
3: That should place it at at number MC34151 built Sept 1951 or later.
4: Less reliable, since it is easily removal is the instrument panel.Last used MC65042 Build date 4/52
Does it have an electrical receptacle on the passenger side beside the passenger seat?
This ameatuer places the S/N from MC34151 to MC65042 and the build date between Sept 51 to Apr 52. Lets see how this stands up to scrutiny _________________ '52 Dodge M37, '42 GPW, '48 FrankenJeep CJ2A/M38, '50 CJV-35(U), '51 M38, '42 WC-57 Command Car, '44 WC-51 Weapons , (2) M1941 Sperry 60" Anti-Aircraft Searchlights, John Deere M-gator, '44 White M3A1 Scout Car
Joined: Mar 17, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:53 pm Post subject:
Thank you very much for the response. By the book do you mean the M38 Reference Guide? So by your references it looks likely that 38500 is in the right vicinity for the vehicle serial number. I will have a look tonight for the electrical receptacle. _________________ Eric M38
Joined: May 30, 2014 Posts: 3447 Location: Texas Hill Country
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:16 pm Post subject:
Ah, but the thick plottens.
The hole in the dash did come from the factory on later units,
but was a modification done in the field when heaters were installed.
A better indication would be whether the dash has evidence of individually
installed dash plates. Then later holes for the plate used to cover the hole
if and when it was cut out.
A simple solution is to send me your completed M38 survey form!
It's obvious from your photo above that your dash is an early individual dash plate dash that has had the heater hole cut in the field and the dash plate mounting changed from directly to the dash to directly to a panel then to the dash.
MD34151 SEP 1951 was the last M38 with individual dash plates so we can all agree your jeep is before that serial.
Joined: Mar 17, 2015 Posts: 10 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:51 am Post subject:
That's some great detective work thank you very much. It seems it was too easy to draw a line from the number stamped on the frame. I am working my way through the survey and hope to have the bulk of the answers over this coming weekend. _________________ Eric M38
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