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M38 shock absorbers

 
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Standa
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Joined: Jul 17, 2008
Posts: 34
Location: Czech Republic

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:19 am    Post subject: M38 shock absorbers Reply with quote

Hello gentlemen.

Please help.
I am the owner of M38 in the Czech Republic.
I need to buy new shock absorbers.
I do not know exactly what the length is.
Front is the same as MB / GPW?
I do not know how long the rear silencer should be (I do not have the original).
Does anyone advise me where to buy the right ones?
Or write lengths.

Many thank you
Best regards Standa
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1952 - M38
1951 - M100 Trailer
1960 - GAZ 69M
1959 - ITM Jeep


http://www.jeep-m38.rps.cz/


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Xamon
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Joined: Sep 18, 2012
Posts: 491
Location: Southwestern Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The search tool is your friend, but here is the info.
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11138&highlight=shocks
Go down a few and Wes gives a comprehensive answer.
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Standa
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Posts: 34
Location: Czech Republic

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you.
I do not know why but I could not find it.
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1952 - M38
1951 - M100 Trailer
1960 - GAZ 69M
1959 - ITM Jeep


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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 13655
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Frequently Asked Questions About Shock Absorbers



A great many people always ask questions about shock absorbers for their jeeps. One thing I have to say up front is that my jeep did not have original shocks on it when I bought it. The shocks that were on it were too long and as a result all the shock mounting points except one was damaged to some extent. The upper cast mounts were all damaged beyond repair, so I replaced them with reproduction mounts. As a result of this, I lost the prominent F-marks that appeared on each of them.

I have heard that the original rear shocks had stone guards built into them. Because the shocks on my jeep were not original, and I have never seen an original shock, I can not comment on the stone guards. So, with all that said, maybe these notes can help you.

Q. Are the front and rear shocks the same?

A. No. They are different. The rear shocks are slightly longer than the front shocks. Front shocks are 11-3/8" collapsed and 17-5/8" extended. Rear shocks are 12-1/8" collapsed and 18-3/8" extended.

Q. I think I have the right shocks but the rear shocks seem too short.

A. This is a common occurrence with unfatigued springs and an unloaded frame. Most of the time you hear this, a person is doing a frame off restorations and at the point of fitting the rear shocks. The shocks will appear to be about 1-1/2" too short to span the distance between the shock mounts.

Q. If the rear shocks are too short, how do I get them on?

A. You can get the shocks on by having three or four full-size people stand on the rear of your frame to compress the springs while you install the shocks. If you are working alone, you can nail a three foot 2" x 4" to the end of a 4" x 4" post to make a "T" brace. Place a small hydraulic bottle jack on the gun mount plate, place the T-brace on the jack and position it against the rafters of your garage. Operate the jack to jack the frame down until you can get the shocks on their mounting pins.

Q. Who makes replacement shocks for my military jeep?

A. Shocks that perform the same function as the original equipment shocks are manufactured by Gabriel http://www.gabriel.com/ and Monroe. http://www.monroe.com/ Their customer service representatives will tell you that they do not make "original equipment shocks". The reason they tell you this is that the original shocks were oil-filled shocks. All replacement shocks are Nitrogen gas-filled shocks.

I spoke with representatives from both these companies "Customer Service" department and got nowhere with them. Then I got in touch with their "Technical Support" representatives, that was a whole another story. These guys knew the product line.

Gabriel shocks are marketed under their Classic Shock Absorber Product line. This line is what they call a limited duty product for limited registration vehicles. I guess that means they are not designed for your daily driver. Or they just wear out quicker. But they do look very similar to the original OEM equipment.

Monroe shocks are marketed under their KYB GasAdjust Line. No restrictions on their use is noted as in the Gabriel Classic products.

Q. What are the part numbers of the shocks?

A. Gabriel Classic Shocks - All Jeep Military Models (including the Ford GPW) from model years 1941 to 1953 - Front 82014 and Rear 82007.

Monroe GasAdjust Shocks - Jeep Military Models from model years 1941 to 1953 - Front G5401MIL and Rear G5401BMIL.

Q. Someone gave me a shock number and a box number for Gabriel shocks. What is this box number?

A. The "Box" number is the number that appears on the packaging the shock come in. This number is a stock number for the shock while the shorter number is the actual manufacturers' part number. If you look at the shock, the manufacturing part number will be stamped into the body of the shock. This number is 739014 for the front and 739007 for the rear. The stock number (box) may change depending on what retailer stocks that part number, but the last three digits will always remain the same.

Q. How much can I expect to pay for shocks for my jeep?

A. The Gabriel shocks go for an average price of $13.00 each. The Monroe shocks average about $40.00 each.

Q. Where can I purchase shocks for my MA, MB, MC (M-3Cool or GPW military jeep?

A. This is the hard question to answer. I would say at any auto parts supply store. Gabriel and Monroe are two of the largest manufacturers of automotive ride control products in the country and I would think that every automotive parts house would have access to their products. However, see the answer I got from a Gabriel factory representative.

When asking about shocks for your jeep at most retail auto parts stores, you have to watch the counter person. If he or she goes to a computer, they will never find your part! I have noticed that in most of these retail stores when you walk up to the counter and mention any vehicle earlier than model year 1987 the counter person recoils in disdain or horror. They will then gingerly type the information in on THE COMPUTER keyboard as if it had big harkers all over it. Then they tell you THE COMPUTER does not list that vehicle. It appears that anything related to most automobiles earlier than 1987 does not exist in computer data bases, so those parts have to be referenced in a catalog. If the store does not have a catalog, they will have to call Gabriel or Monroe to get the part number. Save them the time and give them the manufacturers part numbers I gave you earlier.

Ok, bottom line is I got my shocks by special order from PEP Boys. I must add that my local NAPA store could not locate them, but that was before I had all the good information I'm passing on here.

You can always go to the military vehicle specialty parts vendors. If you locate these shocks, please let me know and I will update this page with that information.


Supplier Mfg. Front P/N Box No. Rear P/N Box No Price Ea .Location
Brent Mullins NKK N1004 N1000 $13.75

Submittedby/Date
Mark Tombleson/Sep 9, 2001


If you are interested in going a little deeper into the shock mystery, see these notes I took in December 2000.

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Mystery of the Aftermarket Shocks


After seeing many inquiries on the g503 board and noticing that a shock number was not carried in the crossreference list, I decided to do a little investigating. I had purchased a set of shocks for my 1945 GPW from PEP Boys Automotive a little over a year ago. The units look very similar to the hydrualic units that came off the jeep. By the way, they had leaked every drop of hydrualic fluid out of them and the chamber seals were shot. You could extend and compress them just by rotating them around.



Original inquiry to Gabriel on 12/13/00.

Dear Sir:

I am submitting this inquiry on behalf of myself and several members of a military
vehicle collectors group. We own military jeeps manufactured by Ford (Model GPW) and Willys (Model MB). These jeeps were manufactured between the years of 1941 and 1945. They have suspensions systems similar to the post-war Willys models CJ-2, CJ-2A, CJ-3, 3A and 3B models. I purchased a set of shocks manufactured by your company about a year ago for my 1945 GPW. I ordered them through PEP Boys Automotive. The part numbers I ordered were 82014 for the front and 82007 for the rear. These shocks looked very close to the originals that were on the vehicle.

There has been a great deal of discussion among the members as to a suitable replacement for those replacing their originals. Some are reporting that auto parts dealers cannot cross your part numbers to these vehicles.

Our question to you is does your company still have an original style shock absorber that can be used on these vehicles? And if so, what are the numbers that we have to order to get them. Also, can we order direct from you since this appears to be a specialty type item.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Tony Norton
Dumfries, VA
MVPA Member No. 20215



Mr. M's of Arvin Meritor’s reply to me on 12/14/00.

Thank you for writing and for your interest in our product, however we are an aftermarket supplier of replacement parts therefore our product would not be considered
equivalent to OE units. The units listed are gas charged units and the OE units for your
application were a standard hydraulic shock. The units listed for the application given
are design to fit and function properly w/little to no thought of the OE design. If you are looking are an OE shock you may want to contact ShockFinders. ShockFinders specializes in older, unusually and custom applications. Their phone number is
1-800-344-1966.


Mr. M
Technical Associate
Arvin Meritor Light Vehicle Aftermarket
Maremont Exhaust & Gabriel Ride Control



My reply to Mr. M on 12/14/00.

Dear Mr. M,

I don't think you heard me correctly. I have purchased Gabriel shocks with the part
numbers 82014 listed as front and 82007 listed as rear from the Gabriel Classic Line. My
group does not care what the dampening medium is, be it gas, hydraulic fluid or bubble
gum as long as it is a reasonable facsimile of the originals and provides the dampening
of the suspension for which it was designed. The numbers that I listed above as well as
in my previous letter accomplishes that end very well.

We are not a bunch of guys who take WWII jeeps and turn them into rock crawlers or
monster car crushers. That is a waste of historical value and money. What we do is
restore the jeeps to as near the factory standards as we can reasonably afford. Again,
the shocks I listed in my two letters fit that purpose perfectly and look very close to
the original OE shocks.

What I'm asking is that given the fact that in inquiring at several auto parts stores,
we are being told that there are no shocks available from the Gabriel product lines that
will fit our jeeps. Your part numbers 82007 and 82014 work fine, but your on-line, and I
suspect dealer catalogs do not list these shocks as fitting the 1941 to 1945 jeeps even
though they fit and work fine on the vehicles. The catalog only lists some product that
I suspect can be used on the rock crawler/car crusher modification of these models of
jeep.

So I guess maybe I need to rephrase my question. Do you still manufacture a shock with
the 82007 and 82014 number? And if so, what vehicles is it crossed to?

Thank you very much.

Tony Norton
Dumfries, VA



Mr. M's reply to me on 12/15/00.

I heard you just fine thank you and my reply stays the same. Those are the two numbers
that we list for the applications you mentioned and they are not equilent to the
original equipment units that came on the vehicle. Our units are designed to fit and
function correctly based upon the design criteria of the vehicle without regard to the
OE shock design. The part numbers are listed in both our printed and online catalog
under the M series Jeep which includes the GPW Ford built models and should be available
through any Gabriel retailer. Our product is available from Car Quest, Pep Boys, Auto
Zone, Midas, Meineke Discount Mufflers & Brakes, Sears, NTB, Winston Tire, Les Schwab, Carport, Chief Auto Parts, Farm & Fleet, Discount Auto Parts, J.C. Whitney, CarParts.com and WrenchHead.com (retailers part number may vary due to private label brands, however the shock remains the same).

Mr. M
Technical Associate
Arvin Meritor Light Vehicle Aftermarket
Maremont Exhaust & Gabriel Ride Control



My reply to Mr. M on 12/15/00.

Dear Mr. M,

Thank you very much for your response. I now have all the data I need to pass on to the
guys who are looking for shocks. I guess the key thing here is if a parts person being
asked about shocks is willing to go a little further than the computer sitting on the
counter. I did find the shocks numbers that both you and I mention under the Products
section at the Gabriel website using the search engine today. However, just for your
information, until today, the search engine was telling me that there was no product
available for any military jeep having a model year earlier than 1951. Was this
something that was just recently corrected after we began our conversation?

Again, thank you very much for the assistance and information. I'm sorry for the
frustration exhibited in my second note to you, but it gets really frustrating when
you're trying to order a part that you know is manufactured, but the parts person is
telling you that is is not. That is why I asked you about ordering directly from your
company.

Tony Norton
Dumfries, VA



Copywrite © 2002 Tony Norton. All Rights Reserved.


Clay,
I believe the difference is not that great an issue. The 1955 M38 Parts Manual shows Monroe 18236 on the front and 18237 on the rear. The Early TM 9-804 Sep 1950 and the later TM 9-8012 Jan 1956 both show the front and rear shock lengths the same (compressed 10 15/16" and extended 17 7/16").
The WWII MB TM 9-803 shows the front and rear differ in lengths both compressed (Monroe 11465 Frt 10 9/16" & Monroe 11466 Aft 11 9/16") and extended (frt 16 1/8" & aft 18 1/8"). The M38A1 and M170 both show a difference front (A1 Monroe 18302)(Compressed 11 3/8”) (Extended 16 3/8””) to rear (A1 Monroe 18303) (Compressed 12”) (Extended 19 ½”). 170 front (Compressed11.44”) (Extended 18.44”) and Rear (Compressed 11.94”) (Extended 19.44”)

Wes K


Gabriel’s Jeep application chart for 82014

Jeep Cherokee All 1974 - 1974
Jeep CJ5 All w/5 Leaf Front Springs (Exc. Lift Kit) 1966 - 1971
Jeep CJ5 All w/5 Leaf Front Springs (Exc. Lift Kit) 1966 - 1971
Jeep CJ6 All w/5 Leaf Front Springs (Exc. Lift Kit) 1966 - 1971
Jeep CJ6 All w/5 Leaf Front Springs (Exc. Lift Kit) 1966 - 1971
Jeep Dispatcher All 1961 - 1967
Jeep Dispatcher All 1961 – 1967
Jeep FC150 All 1961 - 1965
Jeep Universal CJ-3B 1961 - 1964
Jeep Universal CJ-3B 1961 - 1964
Jeep Universal All w/5 Leaf Front Springs (Exc. Lift Kit) 1961 - 1967
Jeep Universal All w/5 Leaf Front Springs (Exc. Lift Kit) 1961 - 1967
Jeep Wagoneer All w/Independent Front Suspension 1963 - 1965
Jeep Wagoneer All w/Independent Front Suspension 1963 - 1965
Jeep Wagoneer Exc. 1963-65 Independent Front Suspension 1963 - 1973
Jeep Wagoneer All 1974 - 1974

Gabriel’s Jeep application chart for 82007

Jeep CJ5 All (Exc. w/5 Leaf Front Springs & Lift Kit) 1966 - 1971
Jeep CJ5 All (Exc. Lift Kit) 1972 – 1981
Jeep CJ6 All (Exc. w/5 Leaf Front Springs & Lift Kit) 1966 – 1971
Jeep CJ6 All (Exc. Lift Kit) 1972 - 1975
Jeep CJ7 All (Exc. Lift Kit) 1976 – 1981
Jeep DJ5 All (Exc. Lift Kit) 1966 - 1974
Jeep DJ6 All 1966 - 1968
Jeep FC150 All 1958 - 1965
Jeep Jeepster All 1967 – 1969
Jeep Jeepster All 1967 – 1973
Jeep Scrambler All 1981 - 1981
Jeep Universal All 1961 - 1967

_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

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