Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:08 pm Post subject: M38 Steering Wobble
Any comments/suggestions on the following issues are Greatly Appreciated, my apology if the issues have already been addressed, but I was unable to locate them; I searched the Forum and did not find the answers I am looking for, so, I am posting them here. I have a M38 that was rescued from being further civilianized years ago; and have been restoring it back to its origin gradually over the years and as funds become available.
The steering wobble is the latest that I am trying to fix. I had some play in the bellcrank and the adjusting screw on the steering gear box had bottomed out. I ordered kits for the 15/16 sector shaft gear box, bellcrank and the drag link.
1- My Ross steering gear box is marked TA122885, the 15/16" sector shaft that I received does not work because the pins are too far apart. I measured the distance between the pins on the old shaft and it is almost the same as the distance between the pins on M38 7/8" shaft. Apparently the kit I received is for M38A1, however, the brass bushings, seal and bearings seem to work, but the cover gasket does not. The M38A1 cover gasket is too large and the M38 cover gasket is too small for my cover. One of the vendors suggested that I heat up the pins on my old sector shaft and rotate them to use the surfaces that have not been used before. Pros, Cons? short of making the gasket, any supplier that may have that?
2- The bell crank kit came with a new bolt/shaft, nut, cross bolt, bearings, bushing and top and bottom seals. My old bell crank shaft/bolt has a dust seal on top of the bell crank that did not come with the new kit, so I used the old one. However, after replacing all the worn parts, there is still some lateral movement in the bell crank, and the main bolt/shaft can still be rotated with some efforts and a 1/2" ratchet. The movement is between the bearings and the new sleeve. One vendor suggested that I add a washer under the main nut, but that is going to put more pressure on the cross bolt and the shaft's shoulder. Any suggestions?
Joined: Feb 17, 2012 Posts: 530 Location: Del City, OK
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:11 pm Post subject:
Are, you having steering wobble or front shimmy? I ask to be sure... Of shimmy, check your wheel bearings to be sure they are tight. I had that problem, tighten them up then turn the wheels and re-tighten... Also check all components in the steering chain, tie rod ends, bell crank, drag link and steering box. It all adds up and causes problems...
Tie rod ends are not too expensive and when ordering be sure to measure for the proper diameter tie rod pipes (That is what I call them).
Take your time it will pay off
Hope this helps _________________ Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 201001205
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
When discussing front end problems they are usually sorted out to three types:
1 - Death Wobble, Happens whenever you hit a serious bump or railroad
tracks. Causes a terrible left / right oscillation of the front wheels which
can only be stopped by applying the brakes hard. Usually this is a wheel
bearing or king pin (pivot Brg) problem.
2 - Front wheel shimmy, this is a rapid left / right shake of the front wheels.
Usually this is tie rod, bellcrank or drag link problem. Occasionally a loose
steering sector or strg gear box can cause it. And in rare instances worn
or incorrectly pre-loaded king pin (Pivot) Brgs can contribute to it.
3 - Steering wheel play. This is usually the strg gear box and occasionally
the drag link or bellcrank. With wheels on the ground and straight ahead
the strg. wheel should not move left / right more than a 1/2" measured
at the rim of the wheel. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Thanks for the responses, it is the death wobble, it has been the issue since the unit was acquired, wheel bearings were replaced last winter; tie rods are fine. It starts acting up when going over a bump, and shakes the vehicle violently until bringing it to complete stop at which time it still shakes to wind down the momentum. Alternatively, a sudden acceleration would also tame it down till next bump.
Has anyone had luck locating this oddball sector shaft or the gasket for its cover? Or has any experience with rotating the pins? What about taking up the movement in the bell crank shaft?
I think you will find your King pin (Pivot) bearings worn since you have already taken care of the wheel bearings. Jack the axle and see how much top/bottom slack you have. Also check steering resistance of the knuckle (not the steering linkage) using a spring scale with the tie rod disconnected from the arm on the knuckle.
You should probably try to positively ID which steering box you have then try to sort out part numbers.
Thanks for the response, king pin bearings are tight, with bell crank disconnected, no movement when the wheels are moved in and out vertically and/or horizontally, most of the slop has been in the bell crank and the steering gear box. Also unlike other numbers that are part of the castings, this number TA13084NG is engraved on the sector shaft's housing where the bearing surfaces fit. I am attaching a few photos to aid in ID. Sincerely
Thanks for the response, king pin bearings are tight, with bell crank disconnected, no movement when the wheels are moved in and out vertically and/or horizontally,
Thanks again, will check the preload as soon as I find a fish scale. Do the photos have to be loaded from a photo gallery album or I could load them directly without having an album? I do not have one.
Your steering gear is the late M38 gear box used on MC31337 and up. It's part numbers are: ORD# 7412447, WO# 804384, RG# TA13084. It is well illustrated in the M38 Parts Manual ORD 9 SNL G-740 page 259 and you will find it's actual listing with part numbers on page 265. Also the assy number is on your 3rd photo.
(ORD is Ordnance, WO is Willys Overland, & RG is Ross Gear)
The correct sector shaft for your box is PN WO# 804534
The correct cover gasket is ORD# 7375346, WO# 644537 & RG# TA129000
The two above parts are different on the M38A1 box and have different part No's _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Those last 2 photos are your thumb nails which make up the index page of your photo album. Left Clicking on them once would have yielded the small sized photo like the two I posted. Those sized photos (#1 & #2 above are only in the 50K file range which is a 100K smaller then required. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Google this: "M38 sterring Bellcrank willysmjeeps"
You will get a lot of mjeeps posts on this exact issue. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
I had to remove all the shims in order to get the correct king pin preload. And that is with new bearings and cups.
Check that, and your toe in because the wobble is related to those things. _________________ M38 23100 June 51
M38 34523 Sep 51
M606/CJ3B 1964 Kaiser 57348 118458
M37B1 1963
Willys MB 1944
Ford GPW 1942
Dodge WC63 1943
Dodge Power Wagon WM300 1967
Plymouth Barracuda, 1973, 340 4 barrel
All ground up restored by me.
Lots of others.
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