Clutch Boot

[RonD2]

Missing the clutch cable boot. This is what I have:



Research in the M38 manuals and the Reference Guide told me I have an early M38 bell housing, but there's chance I flubbed it and have a CJ-2A or -3A bell housing? Yes, 97-tooth flywheel with the early timing hole cover. I don't have a CJ Parts Manual (yet), so knowing for sure what bell housing I really have is escaping me.

I believe the M38 bell housing has a fitting/adapter for the boot threaded into that hole? And the boot has a clamp sealing it to that adapter, and another clamp sealing the other end of the boot? Obviously the hole in my bell housing has no threads to accept that adapter, which is the main reason I suspect a boot for a CJ is what I need?

If anybody could please confirm this (or straighten me out with some wisdom) I'd certainly appreciate it!
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[skyjeep50]

You are correct on the M38 housing having a threaded hole for the boot fitting. Your housing is from a CJ.
_________________
1951 M38

[RonD2]

This boot (WO-808936) seems to be the most common available in the market. Some vendors call it a "universal" boot while others say it's for M38 and M38A1. I don't see how it can possibly fit what I have properly without that threaded adapter nipple sticking out from the bell housing to clamp on to. Maybe I'm missing something....



_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[RonD2]

Thank you, Sky.

Are there any solutions out there, or am I pretty much stuck living without the rubber protection? I do have the (also unthreaded) drain hole at 6 o'clock on the bell housing so most anything that washes in there should wash out.

I haven't researched the dimensions involved, but wonder if taking the threads down on the adapter, would it fit the hole in the bell housing? Weld, or maybe JB-weld it in place. Would be hard to tell the difference....

Just thinking out loud....
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[45auto]

RonD2,
This is just a quick reply to help you get on the right track. It would help to know the serial number to your M38 as there were quite a few changes that took place during production. There are a lot of differences between an early 1951 M38 and a late 1952 M38. The manual lists most if not all these changes.

I do know the early M38s did not have a sealed bellhousing. Even the engine to bellhousing backing plate had a square hole just below the oil pan that would allow mud to fill the bellhousing under certain driving conditions. A notice was sent out showing how to make a cover to prevent it from happening. When fording, instructions called for the operator to NOT de-clutch the vehicle when under water. Fully sealed bellhousing came about the same time as M38A1 production started--April 1952. Does your M38 have the square hole in the engine backing plate?

To add the boot--you would need more parts--the fitting, correct style clamps, the boot and a new clutch cable. The correct clutch cable would have two closely spaced "balls" on the cable where the small end of the boot positions itself and locks it in place keeping the cable from sliding in and out the boot. The parts manual is your friend to know what parts you need to source to make a correct installation.

You will need to determine what parts you have and where you want to go with a restoration. I have a May 1951 M38 that would use the early unsealed bellhousing and it came to me with a sealed type bellhousing and associated parts. Most likely installed along the way by the maintaining motor pool. I have since tracked down all the early parts along with an early engine to replace the updated later parts. I want to go back to the early parts since I also have a May 1952 M38 to show the differences between the M38's in just a year.
_________________
Harold W.
MVPA #6833
1945 GPW
1950 CJV-35/U
1951 M38 1952 M38
1962 USMC Contract M38A1
1953 Strick M100 1967 Johnson M416
1968 CJ5 4-Speed 1969 CJ5 V6

[wesk]

\



Not sure when the switch in the early bell with the larg square cable opening and the small round cable opening occurs.


_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[RonD2]

Thanks Harold!

"Does your M38 have the square hole in the engine backing plate?" YES.

The serial numbers on my M38 were long gone when I bought it. Even the motor has been decked. I'm certain I have an M38 (and it's titled and registered as a 1951 Willys MC), it does have a mixture of M38 "early" and "late" indicators on it, and there are few CJ pieces mixed in --- the bell housing being the latest discovery. It's also converted to 12v. A true "mongrel salad", but she looks pretty good, runs pretty good, and she's all mine.

I'm not going to change the bell housing to M38 just to put a boot on it. At least until or unless I had some other major cascading reason......

I suppose I'll get a CJ-2A/3A Parts Manual and do some research into what they use on the bell housing. Assuming those parts are available, they'll have to do for the time being.
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[RonD2]

Thanks Wes. I used the M38 Reference Guide and your photos to identify my bell housing as the early M38 type (from what I can see of it while installed, not on the bench).

That is, until I just discovered that the round hole for the clutch cable boot is supposed to be threaded for the adapter. Mine isn't threaded, but all else about it appears to be early M38. Which seems to make it a CJ bell housing. Which leads me to using a CJ boot solution (if it exists).

Talking crazy question: assuming the dimensions are present, could that round hole be tapped to accept the correct M38 boot adapter? Or is that Bubba speak?

When originally made, I'm guessing the bell housing was cast without the threads and they were cut in later anyway?
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[45auto]

RonD2,
From your replied--odds are good you have the original early non-sealed bellhousing and engine backing plate. This means, the opening for the clutch cable would not be threaded. You can see the outline of the recommended cover for the open hole was used on the engine backing plate in Wes's photo. Instructions on how to make the plate is on this web site--in the scanned Army Motors section.

Wes,
The V35 used the bellhousing with the two rectangle openings--on the passengers side, a plate is used to seal off the opening and on the clutch cable side, a curved cover with rubber strips on the edges covers the bellhousing clutch cable opening. It bolts to the bellhousing and more or less kept out debris as it wouldn't seal out water. The cover is fully open on the rear where the cable comes into the bellhousing.
_________________
Harold W.
MVPA #6833
1945 GPW
1950 CJV-35/U
1951 M38 1952 M38
1962 USMC Contract M38A1
1953 Strick M100 1967 Johnson M416
1968 CJ5 4-Speed 1969 CJ5 V6

[RonD2]

Thanks Harold, it's always good to know I have M38 parts rather than CJ parts!

Without threads for the boot adapter on early bell housings, what (if anything?) was used for a boot?

I'll take a look at the backing plate cover instructions. Where is the "scanned Army Motors section"?
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[45auto]

The clutch cable opening on the early non-sealed bellhousings did not have a boot of any kind, it was just open. When used during fording operations--landing craft to shore--you were instructed to start off in gear, leave it in gear and not to use the clutch. the bellhousing would be full of water until you made shore and the water drained out. When looking at the sealed bellhousings, you can't help but wonder why they didn't figure it sooner!!

The update on the engine plate cover is in the scanned pages of PS Magazine, I was thinking one thing and typing another.

This is where its at and the link to it.

its under Photo Gallery--PS Magazine--Page 6.

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=PS-Magazine&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=6
_________________
Harold W.
MVPA #6833
1945 GPW
1950 CJV-35/U
1951 M38 1952 M38
1962 USMC Contract M38A1
1953 Strick M100 1967 Johnson M416
1968 CJ5 4-Speed 1969 CJ5 V6

[45auto]

I also found this on when the sealed bellhousing were introduced on the M38 production line.

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?full=1&set_albumName=PS-Magazine&id=PS_1954_no_18_p885&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
_________________
Harold W.
MVPA #6833
1945 GPW
1950 CJV-35/U
1951 M38 1952 M38
1962 USMC Contract M38A1
1953 Strick M100 1967 Johnson M416
1968 CJ5 4-Speed 1969 CJ5 V6

[RonD2]

Thank you! So glad to hear I don't have a CJ bell housing. There's a cover plate in my future.

I like the horn rod fix in the same article....got to try it too!

Behind my oil pan:



_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[wesk]

Ron most folks that want a better seal on the early bell cable hole use a rubber grommet.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[skyjeep50]

The M38 bellhousing was sealed because the clutch caused too much drag in a flooded bellhousing. Not a lot of horsepower to spare especially when operating in water!
_________________
1951 M38