Create an account Home  ·  ·  Forums  ·  ·  Articles  ·  ·  Downloads  ·  ·  Photo Gallery  
Login
Nickname

Password

Don't have an account yet? You can create one here.

Navigation
· Home
· Article Archive
· Article Submit
· Downloads
· FAQ
· Forums
· Members List
· Photo Gallery
· Private Messages
· Web Links
· Your Account

Search Articles



Forums

FS - Early M38 horn
M38 grill hinges
M38a1 / m170 shifter boot installation
Engine stay cable
45 M Willys, what is a reasonable price
Tub Vendors
HELP needed with M38 top bow mounting locations!!
M38 CARBURATOR KIT ?
Say hello to: CJV-35(U)
Industrial lamp Corp lid , driver side

Willys M Jeeps Forums


willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - NO OIL PRESSURE
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

NO OIL PRESSURE
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    willysmjeeps.com Forum Index -> Technical Knowledge Base
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kilroy583
Member


Joined: Mar 07, 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:00 am    Post subject: NO OIL PRESSURE Reply with quote

Hello everyone,
I was on G503.com trying to figure out why I cant seem to develop oil pressure. If you want to visit that post to get an idea of what I'm dealing with it originated as a post of (no spark). As of now my oil pan is off, my timing gear cover is off and I verified all oil plugs in the oil gallery are in. The cam oil spray nozzle is in. when I pump oil down the inlet hose at the oil filter to fill the oil gallery the only area I see oil coming out is from the spray nozzle. I understand oil needs to come out of the spray nozzle but I'm using a thumb pump type oil can how can I build pressure if it is so easy to get oil to come out of the spray nozzle? I have an NOS oil pump installed, there is a gasket installed where the oil pick up tube is bolted to the underside of the block. Originally every thing was connected and the engine did start but I have not started it again because I could not get any oil pressure readings. I currently have a mechanical gauge installed on the oil line where it would connect to the sending unit so I can rule out any electrical or sending unit problems. the oil pump originally was soaked in a can of oil so I know it works. I'm going to put everything back together as soon as I get the gaskets I ordered but I'm wondering if there is anything else to look at while the oil pan and timing cover is off. I will line up the timing marks pull the oil pump soak it in oil again and reinstall it with a new gasket. Any input will be very much appreciated

Thanks you
Chris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
oilleaker1
Member


Joined: May 14, 2009
Posts: 965
Location: South Dakota

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rotate the pump submerged in the can to expel air in the pump. I put the filter in the canister and fill it with oil also, unless you have a cuno type oil filter. Fill the side gallery with your hand pump can back down the line that goes to the side of the block by the fuel pump, or where your mechanical gauge is. Plugs out, spin it over and you should see pressure within 30 seconds. Did you pull the oil float cover and clean all the crud out of there? You can't get the crud out if you don't. There has been a rash of no oil pressure threads lately. I'm trying to understand why these steps aren't working for others. Please report back as you go. John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 14449
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris,

I reviewed your G503 post at:
http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=226581&sid=868d736399c55378f10bd2be3e399914

You appear to have done everything John and I (AKA Cuz) have pointed out. I am a professional mechanic and I have only built 5 jeep 4 cylinder engines over the years in my shop. The first in 1971 and the 5th is on the engine stand now with two more waiting. You seem to have done everything you were advised to do. It's time to post photos of what you have. Closeups are needed of the spray nozzle you have, the oil pump and gasket you have, the oil filter and it's plumbing you have. The oil pickup you have.

You said the engine was rebuilt 17 years ago. Other than the test runs you did this past fall/winter with no oil pressure was the engine run with good oil pressure any other time during that 17 years?
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php


Last edited by wesk on Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
buzzk
Member


Joined: Dec 03, 2013
Posts: 197
Location: Saint Augustine , Florida

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:09 am    Post subject: oil pressure Reply with quote

I was taught to pack the oil pump w/grease to force it to prime old school
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 14449
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packing pumps with grease was old school for normally difficult systems like the Buicks with the pump up front or a worn engine/pump that was stubborn to prime.

The Willys will normally pump right away just by making sure the pump was immersed in oil before installing.

We need an answer from Chris to my question above before we can offer any more useful advice.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kilroy583
Member


Joined: Mar 07, 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: no oil pressure Reply with quote

No, the engine has never been run before, until this last fall. I had always kept openings in the engine closed to outside air. It has always been stored in my garage and I rotated the crank shaft once a week, worst case once a month. I will send some pictures as soon as I figure it out. Still new at this site.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 14449
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well since this is the first run attempt on a 17 year old overhaul and you state you have confirmed the following to be correct:

1-Oil pump is properly primed and installed.
2-Direct reading gauge is connected properly and is accurate.
3-There are NO 1/8" pipe plugs loose or missing.
4-The front cam gear lubricating jet nozzle is the correct .040 orifice.
5-The oil pump pick-up screen is clean and clear.

That leaves only the bearing clearances on the crank and cam and the bore clearance on the lifter bodies. If you are positively 100 % certain 1 thru 5 are good to go then it is now time to disassemble the engine and check these clearances.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kilroy583
Member


Joined: Mar 07, 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok,
finally figured out picture posting problems so I have a couple of pics on. the oil pump was properly installed. You can see the gasket I made its on top of the oil filter. The material is a little bit thicker than the original (about 3 times thicker) this is the gasket that fits between the pump and the block. The screen is clear. direct ready gauge should be good its new and is connected to the oil line that would connect to the sending unit. It comes with a 6 foot hose so I can hang it over the wind shield when I turn the engine. The nozzle has no marking on it so I'm not sure what size it is so I can take it somewhere and have that checked. I'm thinking about assembling it all back together with new gaskets and nozzle to see if I can't get it to work before I disassemble the engine. Any thoughts?

Chris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 14449
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sent you photos of the bottom of the block showing locations of the 1/8"P plugs over on the G503 PM page. Are you 100% certain that every plug is in and tight?



The stock oil spray nozzles came in a 0.070" diameter early and 0.040" later. You can check that yourself with the appropriate size drill bit.





There are 4 or 5 of those plugs along that right oil gallery. I recall at least 2 at the rt. rear side of the center main bearing web plus the two shown in the second photo.

The left oil gallery has your gauge at the back end. Then two unused ports in the middle then the front one behind the fuel pump that feeds the oil filter.

Make sure that oil filter is plumbed correctly. The hose from the lower left front of the block by the fuel pump must go to the oil filter's "IN" port which has a restriction inside the filter. The filter "OUT" port hose goes to the front timing cover. If you reversed these hoses you'll get 0 oil pressure. If the filter "IN" port and tube have no restriction you will get 0 oil pressure.

Why are you not using the correct thickness oil pump to block gasket. The thin gasket is required for proper sealing.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
artificer
Member


Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 206
Location: Gold Coast Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I posted this previously but don't see....make sure the Pressure Regulating Valve [PRV spring & plunger] is in place & free to move in the oil pump. Can be done without removing the pump from the engine.
If missing in action or open you will NOT get oil pressure....also the pick up tube MUST be secure & tightly mounted on the crankcase so as not to pull air rather than create a lower than atmospheric pressure.
_________________
John GIBBINS
ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician 2002 USA
Licensed Motor Mechanic NSW # MVIC 49593 Current
YOU CAN'T TROUBLESHOOT WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kilroy583
Member


Joined: Mar 07, 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok,
I will verify all plugs for tightness and verify they are all in.
I will purchase correct gasket.
I will need to purchase a new spray nozzle mine is a .070.
I will verify spring and plunger in the oil pump (relief valve)
hoses at filter are correct
once I have all the parts and its all back together I will prime the oil pump
submerge it in oil and turn the shaft to see oil pump out, install pump, fill oil gallery via inlet at the top of oil filter canister.

Did I miss anything?

Thank you for all your input I'll let you know how it goes when I'm done!

Chris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kilroy583
Member


Joined: Mar 07, 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I added a picture of the old spray nozzle and the new one which is N.O.S. the new one is .07 the old one is .07 but the old one looks a lot bigger I'm assuming because of wear. I'm going to send the new one back and keep looking for a spray nozzle with a .04 orifice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
heywood1
Member


Joined: Jul 04, 2013
Posts: 21
Location: troy Alabama

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had the same problem about 6 months ago.A motor I knew nothing about.
Started right up sounded great,zero oil pressure.
Dropped oil pan to check gallery plugs and oil pickup and everything looked fine.decided to remove the over large screen cover on the oil pickup and really verify that the screen was clear.It looked fine with the cover on but after carefully prying the tabs up and removing the cover I found a piece of gasket the size of a postage stamp that was covering the inlet pipe.The screen was actually being sucked up to the the pipe due to the blockage.Mind you ,none of this could be seem until the cover over the screen was removed.
Cranked it up and BAM....40 psi of oil pressure!
Hope this might help
_________________
1953 M38a1
1967 M715
1965 m101a1 trailer
1970 M35a2 (sold)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kilroy583
Member


Joined: Mar 07, 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Heywood I also pulled off the cover except mine was clear. I really feel its the oil nozzle. found one NOS with a .04 orifice but it was sent in a standard envelope with a few stamps. 12 days latter and no nozzle no tracking available. So still looking for a nozzle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kilroy583
Member


Joined: Mar 07, 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FINALLY,
Received my NOS oil spray jet with a .04 orifice. Posted some pictures so anyone can see the difference. I really feel good that this might be the problem. Now all I need to do is get this all put back together.

Thanks for everyone's help I will let you know how it goes.

Chris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    willysmjeeps.com Forum Index -> Technical Knowledge Base All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group
Forums ©

 



PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.