Create an account Home  ·  ·  Forums  ·  ·  Articles  ·  ·  Downloads  ·  ·  Photo Gallery  
Login
Nickname

Password

Don't have an account yet? You can create one here.

Navigation
· Home
· Article Archive
· Article Submit
· Downloads
· FAQ
· Forums
· Members List
· Photo Gallery
· Private Messages
· Web Links
· Your Account

Search Articles



Forums

Wiper motor...which is the correct one?
Lead additive, one more question.
M31C mount with or without replica weapon
Backfire and Hesitation
Wanted: Steering column and shaft for M38-1952, or late CJ2A
2024 CT. MILITARY VEHICLE SHOW AND FLEA MARKET- JUNE 15,2024
Brake Line
How to link full size photos in posts
Clutch release bearing support cast tab for return spring
T90 case replacement required?

Willys M Jeeps Forums


willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - Crossmember reinforcing strap - welded in place or no?
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Crossmember reinforcing strap - welded in place or no?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    willysmjeeps.com Forum Index -> Technical Knowledge Base
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ivoryring
Member


Joined: Apr 19, 2016
Posts: 66
Location: Hopkinton, NH

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike_B wrote:
If you don't mind distroying the plates, you could angle grind the welds from the top side being careful not to cut to deep and save the actual frame from damage. Then make new plates if you want them...

Mike B Smile


This sounds like a reasonable approach to me!

Thanks to everyone for their input on this.
_________________
Tundra (really my name, not my truck)

1952 Willys Overland Model MD (M38A1) #MD25713
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (RIP)
2021 Jeep Rubicon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChuckW
Member


Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Posts: 210
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 1964 CJ3B does not have them....I wonder if they have an "M" stamped on them!
_________________
Chuck W.
Dixie Division MVC #002
1952 M38/M100
M274A2
1964 CJ3B
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rhayden2k
Member


Joined: Jul 07, 2016
Posts: 4
Location: IL

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would grind the edges of the strap back to good metal, clean up the rust as good as possible then weld the perimeter of the strap and seal up any way for air or water to get between the pieces.
That should seal all air and moisture out and prevent rust and corrosion between the frame and reinforcing strap, since it takes both oxygen and moisture for rust to occur.
_________________
M38A1 (1953) , CJ2A (1948) w/1971 4 cyl. Ford motor, 2011 Wrangler (daily driver)
Illinois, Palmyra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 16225
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chuck,

The CJ5's had them as well.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jnissen
Member


Joined: May 12, 2018
Posts: 93
Location: Austin Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be interesting if a power chisel will break the spot welds free.Give it a try as you have nothing to lose. For a replacement piece you likely can fab up a strap with some 2" mild steel in the appropriate thickness. Take plenty of pictures and let us know how the fix went.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ivoryring
Member


Joined: Apr 19, 2016
Posts: 66
Location: Hopkinton, NH

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jnissen wrote:
Be interesting if a power chisel will break the spot welds free.Give it a try as you have nothing to lose. For a replacement piece you likely can fab up a strap with some 2" mild steel in the appropriate thickness. Take plenty of pictures and let us know how the fix went.


I don't have access to an air chisel without renting a compressor - but an angle grinder is already in the stock of tools. I will definitely take pics as I go and share my experience.
_________________
Tundra (really my name, not my truck)

1952 Willys Overland Model MD (M38A1) #MD25713
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (RIP)
2021 Jeep Rubicon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ivoryring
Member


Joined: Apr 19, 2016
Posts: 66
Location: Hopkinton, NH

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took a wirewheel to the top of the strap. The passenger side seemed to have 5 spot welds, only 3 of which were still attached, so I took a cutoff wheel on a dremel to them, ground them down and then took a cold chisel and a hammer to pry them up. It took a bit of work but I got the passenger side up and the entire underside except for where I broke away the 3 spot welds was rusted.

Now I have a dilemna about the driver side. Instead of 5, this has 13 spot welds and they appear to all be holding firmly. However, I can definitely see some lifting of the strap between the spot welds, which makes me think there is corrosion going on there too. All these spot welds make me think A) strength along this section is of concern and B) grinding or hammering along here is going to put a lot more stress on the frame (doing 13 instead of 3).



It seems unlikely that I'll be able to completely seal this up without continuing forward and grinding all of those off and pulling the strap out.

In the right side of that photo you can see a bit I need to complete the cutoff on.
_________________
Tundra (really my name, not my truck)

1952 Willys Overland Model MD (M38A1) #MD25713
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (RIP)
2021 Jeep Rubicon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 16225
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The right tool for the right job" is a very old saying and it carries a lot of merit. If this is your first journey to this side of vehicle repair I would suggest you take these photos to a nearby Truck Repair Facility and visit with a few mechanics there and see what their advice would be and what tools they have at their disposal to deal with your type of problem.

As I mentioned above the Pneumatic impact gun with sharp cutter tips works very well for me. Your spot welds are a large diameter variety so drilling thru is not the best answer. Grinding thru is ok but very tedious and time consuming.

At any rate you will very often from this point on in this project wish you owned an air compressor and eventually all the pro type tools that you will find a need for down the road.

I would strongly advise not preventing permanent damage to the straps. They are easily replicated and a new one will do more good then the old bent and damaged and chopped up ones. Yes the only real concern is avoiding any permanent damage to the frame rail. If you concentrate on sacrificing the strap your frame should survive just fine.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Mike_B
Member


Joined: Dec 10, 2017
Posts: 336
Location: Southern Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 4-1/2" angle grinder will make short work of those spot welds, just take it one weld at a time and you'll be done before you know it. In the end you'll know the job was done right!

Make sure you wear a full face shield when grinding as the sparks will be flying!

Mike B Smile
_________________
Mike B
1953 M38A1 Brush Truck
1952 M38
1951 M100 Trailer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RonD2
Member


Joined: Oct 02, 2014
Posts: 1889
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tundra,
Hard to tell from miles away in photos, but it took 68 years to get in the condition it's in. Pretty rugged if you ask me. Is that hidden corrosion really bad enough for you to think the frame is compromised anymore than the rest of it? I don't see heavy pitting.

I can't remember the chemical name (aludyne?) that we used to use for corrosion control. It chemically transformed rust into an inert (and harmless) substance that could be painted right over. Good for years if done properly (and jar-heads rarely read the instructions first). This stuff was fluid enough (like water) to be flooded into tight joints and spaces. Not sure it's still on the market today, but willing to bet there's better living through modern chemistry if it isn't.

Might be worth considering? I'm told there's nothing like "original"...... Very Happy
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
RonD2
Member


Joined: Oct 02, 2014
Posts: 1889
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tundra,
My bust. CRS. Alodine is mostly for aluminum. Apparently still on the market.

This is the an example of the equivalent for steel: http://corroseal.com/

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Corroseal-Rust-Converter-Primer-82320/202960538

I'm sure there's others that are better with more than a quick interweb search.

Beats the heck out of a chisel or needle scaler! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHmDqmLZGKg

Good luck!
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ivoryring
Member


Joined: Apr 19, 2016
Posts: 66
Location: Hopkinton, NH

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll have to try again, but I don't think I can get my angle grinder in to be able to get to these, that's why I was using the Dremel. Angle grinder is definitely quicker work of it. And as I've had breathing problems in the past after doing auto work, I always wear full face mask and respirator with P100 cart for grinding, painting, chemical stripping, welding. The only time I don't wear the respirator is when working with motor oil or grease or coolant.

View of the passenger side after first pass with wire wheel and flap disk - it's not badly corroded/pitted from what I can see, but there definitely was surface rust on both the strap and the frame. Yellow arrow points to one of the cleaned down remains of spotweld. Not bad for a frame that had been sitting outside in a farmers field with no body over it for at least 15 years before I got it.


_________________
Tundra (really my name, not my truck)

1952 Willys Overland Model MD (M38A1) #MD25713
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (RIP)
2021 Jeep Rubicon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jnissen
Member


Joined: May 12, 2018
Posts: 93
Location: Austin Texas

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use one of those twisted wire wheels on an angle grinder. Will clean that metal up significantly better than what is shown. What remains in the pits and crevices can be addressed with some rust converter and a good spray of primer/paint.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ivoryring
Member


Joined: Apr 19, 2016
Posts: 66
Location: Hopkinton, NH

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any particular suggestions on prep for the surfaces between the frame and the strap so it doesn't rust again? Seam sealer? rust converter?
_________________
Tundra (really my name, not my truck)

1952 Willys Overland Model MD (M38A1) #MD25713
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (RIP)
2021 Jeep Rubicon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jnissen
Member


Joined: May 12, 2018
Posts: 93
Location: Austin Texas

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wire wheel (twisted wires - eats rust better than sandblasting and much faster https://www.amazon.com/Makita-Piece-Grinders-Heavy-Duty-Conditioning/dp/B01JJVIPRU/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=twisted+wire+wheel&qid=1581017404&sr=8-7 ) then cover with rust converter in the pits and crevices only. Make sure metal to metal if spot welding back in. Once welded in then I would try to soak additional rust converter into the seam and cover with a heavy primer and paint to seal it up. Once sealed there is little to no chance that rust will come back.

BTW - I had our frame professionally sandblasted and that is definitely the way to go for large areas that need to be cleaned up. Just do all your welding and repair in spots PRIOR to sandblasting. After blasting you will need to prime the frame quickly to keep it from rusting. Doing the spot repairs prior allows you to take your time and do them properly. We used primer over the spot repairs so that they would not rust while we scheduled the sandblaster.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    willysmjeeps.com Forum Index -> Technical Knowledge Base All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group
Forums ©

 



PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.