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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - Windshield Glass Install
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Windshield Glass Install
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Jeff_Lee
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Joined: Jan 27, 2014
Posts: 142
Location: West Palm Beach FL area

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:53 pm    Post subject: Windshield Glass Install Reply with quote

Just about ready to put the windshield glass in my M38 frame using a new rubber gasket, and locking strip. Never had glass in the frame of this jeep in my ownership, so I need a reference point of which side of the windshield you put the locking rubber groove.
The photo in the TM9-1804B shows the locking strip on the rear of the windshield, but the text doesn't mention which side is indicated.
Maybe it doesn't matter, but is there a "best side' to have the locking rubber on?
I don't want to find a windshield in my lap as I push it past 45 mph!
Best, Jeff
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1951 M38 restoration project - Flightline Jeep MC 23923 DoD 6-51
1954 M-100 Trailer USMC Dunbar Kapple s/n M-750759 DoD 1-54
1947 Willys CJ2A - Harvest Green
1954 Ford F-100 Parts chaser - blueprinted Y-Block
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rgmutchler
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Location: Caldwell, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try this topic, I found it in a search.

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2991&highlight=windshield+installation

Good Luck
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R G Mutchler
M274A5
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wesk
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Content deleted due to an inaccuracy! See my new post below.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php


Last edited by wesk on Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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4x4M38
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Location: Texas Hill Country

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prolly would be a good idea to lay the windshield down when towing on a trailer.

There’s all kinds of stuff flying around running down the highway.

Just my two cents....
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Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
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wesk
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously my comment was not to encourage trailering with the windshield up but there are times, particularly on short hauls, or with hard tops and even full military soft tops that the windshields stay up.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

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rgmutchler
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wes, Maybe I am mis-reading your post from 2009 but it sure sounds to me that at that time you were advising that the lock strip went in on the rear/back side, or downwind side of the glass and in your recent post you said the upwind side of the glass??



Quote:
If the windshield glass was originally installed correctly the rubber lock strip which spreads out and tensions the rubber gasket should be on the rear side of the windshield. I like to differentiate between the Windshield (Entire hinged assembly including steel windshield frame, windshield glass and rubber seal) and the Glass. Remove the wiper arms and blades.

You'll need some things to help out. Pliers, knife, spray bottle of soapy water, a roll of twine and a putty knife or windshield spoon and a blanket to lay across the hood.

Fold the windshield down on the hood. Find the end of the lock strip and pull it out of the gasket. Using your putty knife to slight lift the seal lip at the metal frame slide the knife around the glass seal while you squirt the soapy water into the space between the seal and the metal frame. Now gently nurse the glass and seal as an assembly out of the frame by pushing down towards the hood.

Now clean the frame and the gasket, You can reuse the old gasket if it is not dried out and weather checked.

For some it is easier to remove the empty windshield from the jeep and turn it back side down on a table and start the installation there with the glass now laying on top of the frame. I do that with an A1/170 windshield but not the M38. Now lube the gall side groove in the seal with the soapy water and fit it around the glass. If you are on the table lay this glass/seal asembly on top of the frame which is front face up on the table. If you have the windshield still on the jeep then using wood blocks space the glass /seal assembly on the hood so it is up against the face side of the frame. The ends of the seal should be kept along a straight area of the frame towards the bottom edge of the frame.

Take your twine and string it inside the seal groove that faces the frame. Lube the groove and the edge of the frame with the soapy water. With the glass/seal asembly tight against the face of the frame grab one end of the twine from the back face of the frame and slowly pull the twine which will raise the rear lip of the seal over the edge of the frame while you are firmly keep pressure with your other hand on the glass at the point where the twine is leaving the groove and the seal lip is climbing over the edge of the frame. If your twine slips once in a while just use the putty knife or windshield glass spoon to nurse that part of the seal lip over the edge of the frame. When you have the seal fully seated on the frame you can now use the putty knife to hole the lock groove open in the rear face of the seal and slide the putty knife around while squirting soapy water in the groove. Thoroughly soak the lock strip with soapy water water and start it into the groove with you finger and use any firm smooth object like the handle of the putty knife to smoothly press it into the groove all the way around. Now clean up your mess, re-install the windshield on the jeep if you removed it and connect the vacuum system for the wipers and reinstall the arms and blades.

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R G Mutchler
M274A5
M-38 MC13312
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Eades
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Joined: Jul 10, 2018
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Location: Western Washington

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is much consternation on this subject in respect to originality and current safety practices. I ended up putting my lock strip on the inside for what it's worth. Not a difficult job at all.
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Rick Eades
1951 M38 & 1967 M715
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Jeff_Lee
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks All - a lot of bonus information here!

Any thoughts on using a modern silicone spray vs. soapy water? I have always been troubled by leaving a bunch of water down in the rubber grove to induce rust... probably over thinking this, but in the words of Neil Young, "rust never sleeps"

Jeff
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1951 M38 restoration project - Flightline Jeep MC 23923 DoD 6-51
1954 M-100 Trailer USMC Dunbar Kapple s/n M-750759 DoD 1-54
1947 Willys CJ2A - Harvest Green
1954 Ford F-100 Parts chaser - blueprinted Y-Block
Southeast Florida
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RonD2
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Joined: Oct 02, 2014
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Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My M38 bought with glass already installed. Obviously not original glass or rubber. The locking strip is on the front leading side of the glass.

With one post saying front and another saying rear, now I'm wondering which is right. Maybe I'll ask the mobile Safe-Lite guy next time I see his truck in the parking lot at work. Might be an industry standard?

If I think of it, I'll ask him about the lubricant he uses too!
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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wesk
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason for soap & water is it dries out/evaporates and leaves the seal dry and tight. Silicons will leave the seal forever slippery and reduce the effectiveness of the lock strip.

I suppose this factory shipping lot photo of the M38's windshield pretty much settles which side the factory used!



The CJ manuals say rear face of windshield as well.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

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Jeff_Lee
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the advice on the glass install.... after a lot of struggling, and trying both rubber gasket on windshield glass and gasket on windshield frame approaches, I gave up. The mosquitos were biting and the "feels like" was 108 degrees that evening in South Florida, so that may have something to do with it.
I was fortunate to find an oldtime glass shop in Lake Worth, FL with a gentleman with flat glass and gasket experience (read 'senior') who had just finished fitting a split windshield window pane in a Peterbuilt when I arrived. I knew I had the right guy!
I got to watch him (and occasionally lend a free hand) as he did the job. He immediately went with the rubber gasket in frame approach. I asked him why, and he indicated fresh rubber gaskets are too inflexible to stay on the glass.
He put the frame face down on a carpeted table. With the rubber in the frame, and meeting edges trimmed a little more than I had done, he put a large suction cup handle on the center of the glass. Summoning assistance from one of the other "senior" glassmen to help steady the glass and rubber, he proceeded to slip the glass in one bottom corner of the gasket. Once started, he used a flat plastic tool to bring the lip over the edge of the glass. After about 15" up the bottom edge was done, he excused his #2 and finished bringing the rubber around the glass himself, occasionally using a pick to get the lip of the rubber to sit right on the glass. The suction cup handle gave him initial control I never achieved on my own. No string employed during the install.
He then went on to install the locking strip using a special purpose tool that was simple but effective for guiding the wedge strip - it kind of guides the trailing edge of the locking strip while the heal of the tool presses the the rubber home, flush in the groove. This tool, while an unnecessary luxury for we amateur's, made quick work of the locking strip.
Total job about 40 minutes from start to finish. I won't say how much time I had already wasted trying to be a glassman.
He used a silicon spray on both the large gasket glass groove and the locking strip. When I questioned it, he said he had been using it "for years" and hadn't had a problem. I didn't take that any further.
When I initially instructed him to put the locking strip on the back of the glass, he told me "that's wrong". I told him that's the way the manual said to do it. He proceeded with the "backwards" install (the customer is always right?). Then, as he toiled, he had an epiphany - while he was working with the windshield frame facedown, he conjectured that the positioning of the locking strip was on the "rear" side to keep the glass in the frame when the windscreen was in the down, or horizontal position, on the hood. The weight of the glass in the horizontal position, bouncing around as jeeps do, was much more "pop-out" force than the glass would experience in the upright vertical position. I thought this insight made lot of sense.

Best, Jeff
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1951 M38 restoration project - Flightline Jeep MC 23923 DoD 6-51
1954 M-100 Trailer USMC Dunbar Kapple s/n M-750759 DoD 1-54
1947 Willys CJ2A - Harvest Green
1954 Ford F-100 Parts chaser - blueprinted Y-Block
Southeast Florida
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wesk
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always nice to watch experienced folks at work. I'll stay with the lock strip aft. If the windshield pops out when the frame is folded down on the hood from the ride then you were driving to fast for road conditions. If the windshield pops out in your lap and face at 50 MPH you may loose control & die. Easy choice.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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Jeff_Lee
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be clear Wes, the pro did install it with the lock strip aft, as instructed by me.

And after reflection, he reckoned "lock strip aft" was correct for the reason mentioned.

Best, Jeff
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1951 M38 restoration project - Flightline Jeep MC 23923 DoD 6-51
1954 M-100 Trailer USMC Dunbar Kapple s/n M-750759 DoD 1-54
1947 Willys CJ2A - Harvest Green
1954 Ford F-100 Parts chaser - blueprinted Y-Block
Southeast Florida
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RonD2
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Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asking this out loud to the forum from curiosity, and because my lock strip was incorrectly installed on the front leading edge. I might have to preemptively do something about that. Everybody can understand the consequences of any jeep windshield (up or folded down) popping out in either direction anytime the jeep is moving could be catastrophic.

Of all the posts in the many jeep forums I've been reading over the last 5 years or so, I don't recall ever hearing of windshield glass coming out while going down the road or bouncing down a trail. Certainly doesn't mean it never happened before, but it seems the odds might be close to slim to none. Yes, I know, it would only have to happen once.

Jeff, also curious --- is there any safety glass markings etched on your glass? Mine has none. I have to check the state regulations to see if safety glass has to be marked to be legal. Might be a second reason to get mine fixed. Thanks.
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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RonD2
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Searched the SC Motor Vehicle Code (hundreds of pages) for safety glass. It says windshields have to be safety glass, but no mention about marking. They do refer to Federal Motor Vehicle laws and I haven't gone there yet (probably box cars full of pages).

A question comes to mind about Jeff's experience with the glass pro. The pro initially said putting the lock strip on the back side "was wrong". Which seems to imply that it belongs on the front side for windshields that are in the fixed vertical position like 99% of most every car and truck are.

Then he put the lock strip on the back side like Jeff asked him to do, and agreed that doing so made sense for windshields on jeeps that can be folded down on the hood.

Which seems to raise the question that of the possible weaker position for a lock strip to be in, should it be on the front of the glass so it's less likely to come out when the glass is vertical (going down the road at 45mph and in your face), or on the back side of the glass so it's less likely to come out when the windshield is folded down and strapped to the hood?

Of the all the bad things that can happen if glass comes out of the frame at any time when driving the jeep, it seems to me that it coming out when the windshield is strapped down to the hood would be the "better" scenario than it coming out with the windshield vertical and the glass in your face.

I'm now thinking that having the lock strip on the front side, like mine is, might be better than on the rear like the TM and the photo evidence suggests.

I have come across posts in forums about entire windshield frames, glass and all (and hoods) coming off jeeps when not properly secured.
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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