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FS: Fully restored 1955 M38A1
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M38A1 Fuel Pumps
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cobra5
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Joined: Mar 10, 2013
Posts: 36
Location: Stevensville, Montana

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:59 am    Post subject: M38A1 Fuel Pumps Reply with quote

Since original pumps are hard to find, has anyone found a viable replacement that will work? Searching the web I came across these two.
https://www.quadratec.com/products/917709_03.htm
https://www.quadratec.com/products/917709_04.htm
They are different in appearance but one states it will fit the A-1. However, both state they will fit a CJ3A which is basically the civilian version of the M38. The reason I mention this is because I read where the M38 and the A-1 used the same fuel pumps.
Anyone have some insight?
_________________
1951 M37 WOW, 1953 M37 WOW, 1954 M37 WOW, 1953 M38-A1, 1954 M38-A1, 1964 M151-A1, 1967 M151-A1, 1968 M151-A1, 1978 M151-A2, 1989 M35A2C, 1965 M416, 1966 M416, 1967 M416
MSgt, USAF Retired 1/84-10/05
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DaveM38A1
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Joined: Oct 28, 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Fuquay-Varina, North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thick spacer dictates the fuel pump pressure.
Make sure you have one.

Had a more modern aftermarket dual action fuel pump on the Civilian 64 CJ5 when I got it and the fuel pressure was way too high. Had to run a fuel pressure regulator to keep from always flooding the carb.


Don't know if these will physically fit, but the fuel pressure might be too high also.

Used a rebuild kit on mine for the M38A1, but I've not gotten it running to test it.

Got it from:



http://www.then-now-auto.com/fuel-pumps/



Dave
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1955 M38A1
1964 CJ5
1968 M274 Pepe'
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 15038
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many fuel pumps from the jeep line that will fit and work on the M38/M38A1 (L-134 & F-134) engines. Some require some adaptation. The most common civilian dual action pump is the CJ3B F-134 unit that matches the engine but needs the vacuum lines adapted from tubing fittings to hose tubes. To regualte the pump's output pressure Willys went with varied thickness pump to block spacers. So when you substitute a civvy pump and it's pressure is incorrect with the original 9/16" thick spacer then just fabricate different thickness spacers to come up with the desired pressure.

There are about 6 different military dual action pumps used on the M38/M38A1/M170 series jeeps. The military simply kept superseding to the later pumps in their supply system. Yes they all will work on all three jeeps.

If you do not use vacuum wipers then you can certainly substitute a civvy single action pump. Just work in the correct thickness spacer to regulate pressure correctly.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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cobra5
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Joined: Mar 10, 2013
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Location: Stevensville, Montana

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I'm going to go with one in the link. Anyone else using it and know the thickness of the required spacer? I searched the forum and I think I found my answer 1/8 spacer. Is this right?
https://www.quadratec.com/products/917709_04.htm
_________________
1951 M37 WOW, 1953 M37 WOW, 1954 M37 WOW, 1953 M38-A1, 1954 M38-A1, 1964 M151-A1, 1967 M151-A1, 1968 M151-A1, 1978 M151-A2, 1989 M35A2C, 1965 M416, 1966 M416, 1967 M416
MSgt, USAF Retired 1/84-10/05
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WillysMotors
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rock Auto is about $80
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 15038
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I searched the forum and I think I found my answer 1/8 spacer. Is this right?

Can't say either way without knowing the AC part number of the fuel pump.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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4x4M38
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The correct pumps are not hard to find.

First rattle out of the box...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/M38-M38A1-WILLYS-JEEP-G740-G758-FUEL-PUMP-F134-CJ2A-CJ5-/392917220032
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Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
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cobra5
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Joined: Mar 10, 2013
Posts: 36
Location: Stevensville, Montana

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x4M38 wrote:
The correct pumps are not hard to find.

First rattle out of the box...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/M38-M38A1-WILLYS-JEEP-G740-G758-FUEL-PUMP-F134-CJ2A-CJ5-/392917220032


That ended back in Apr.
_________________
1951 M37 WOW, 1953 M37 WOW, 1954 M37 WOW, 1953 M38-A1, 1954 M38-A1, 1964 M151-A1, 1967 M151-A1, 1968 M151-A1, 1978 M151-A2, 1989 M35A2C, 1965 M416, 1966 M416, 1967 M416
MSgt, USAF Retired 1/84-10/05
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RonD2
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Joined: Oct 02, 2014
Posts: 807
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope. August not April. How do I know? Because I bought it. Needed a re-buildable core for a spare. A little pricey at $87.50 (delivered, with tax), but patience got the best of me. Laughing
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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4x4M38
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point.

They are around.

George has them but requires a core or $100 core charge.

https://www.armyjeepparts.com/p-1807-fuel-vacuum-pump-assembly-m38a1-willys-jeep-rebuilt-ajp-wo-805727.aspx?network=g&device=m&keyword=&campaign=10021784069&adgroup=pla-296106487560&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_sfErLDI6wIVj4bACh0PfQaKEAQYAiABEgIR0vD_BwE

Have you tried calling the suppliers? There’s no way they have everything listed on line. If you’ve ever seen photos of their inventory you can see that. Army Jeep Parts, Midwest Military, Brent Mullins Jeep Parts, Quarter Ton Military, etc.. Plus you have a chance to talk to some really nice and knowledgeable folks in most cases, and possibly develop a relationship. That’s important in any hobby, including this one. Those guys all know each other, and can help.

There is one on eBay, from Bulgaria? You are on your own there.
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Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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cobra5
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Location: Stevensville, Montana

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RonD2 wrote:
Nope. August not April. How do I know? Because I bought it. Needed a re-buildable core for a spare. A little pricey at $87.50 (delivered, with tax), but patience got the best of me. Laughing


That's strange because when I click on the link it clearly shows it end April 29, 2020.

Updated: Never mind I went further back and opened the original listing and it shows Aug. I went and tried the link again and it now says Aug. Don't know whats going on but I should have taken a photo of it.
_________________
1951 M37 WOW, 1953 M37 WOW, 1954 M37 WOW, 1953 M38-A1, 1954 M38-A1, 1964 M151-A1, 1967 M151-A1, 1968 M151-A1, 1978 M151-A2, 1989 M35A2C, 1965 M416, 1966 M416, 1967 M416
MSgt, USAF Retired 1/84-10/05


Last edited by cobra5 on Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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cobra5
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Joined: Mar 10, 2013
Posts: 36
Location: Stevensville, Montana

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x4M38 wrote:
My point.

They are around.

George has them but requires a core or $100 core charge.

https://www.armyjeepparts.com/p-1807-fuel-vacuum-pump-assembly-m38a1-willys-jeep-rebuilt-ajp-wo-805727.aspx?network=g&device=m&keyword=&campaign=10021784069&adgroup=pla-296106487560&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_sfErLDI6wIVj4bACh0PfQaKEAQYAiABEgIR0vD_BwE

Have you tried calling the suppliers? There’s no way they have everything listed on line. If you’ve ever seen photos of their inventory you can see that. Army Jeep Parts, Midwest Military, Brent Mullins Jeep Parts, Quarter Ton Military, etc.. Plus you have a chance to talk to some really nice and knowledgeable folks in most cases, and possibly develop a relationship. That’s important in any hobby, including this one. Those guys all know each other, and can help.

There is one on eBay, from Bulgaria? You are on your own there.



They are around but don't seem to come up as frequently as one would think.
_________________
1951 M37 WOW, 1953 M37 WOW, 1954 M37 WOW, 1953 M38-A1, 1954 M38-A1, 1964 M151-A1, 1967 M151-A1, 1968 M151-A1, 1978 M151-A2, 1989 M35A2C, 1965 M416, 1966 M416, 1967 M416
MSgt, USAF Retired 1/84-10/05
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cobra5
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Joined: Mar 10, 2013
Posts: 36
Location: Stevensville, Montana

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wesk wrote:
Quote:
I searched the forum and I think I found my answer 1/8 spacer. Is this right?

Can't say either way without knowing the AC part number of the fuel pump.


This is the pump I bought.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=59028&cc=1421121&jsn=1&jsn=1
_________________
1951 M37 WOW, 1953 M37 WOW, 1954 M37 WOW, 1953 M38-A1, 1954 M38-A1, 1964 M151-A1, 1967 M151-A1, 1968 M151-A1, 1978 M151-A2, 1989 M35A2C, 1965 M416, 1966 M416, 1967 M416
MSgt, USAF Retired 1/84-10/05
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 15038
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That site does not offer a AC part number for which their odd number pump is a sub for. You are back to experimenting with spacers till you find one the gives the correct operating pressure.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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RonD2
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That site gives this Alternate/OEM Part Number(s): 5594698

Isn't that the AC number?

Maximum Pressure Rate (psi) 3.75
Minimum Free Flow Rate (gph) 15 GPH @ 1000 RPM
Minimum Pressure Rate (psi) 2.5
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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