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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - Scored Cylinder Sleeves
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Scored Cylinder Sleeves
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Naugha
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Joined: Apr 01, 2020
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:14 pm    Post subject: Scored Cylinder Sleeves Reply with quote

In a better world your barn find M38 would have a MC engine.... but no ....and the local machine shop says the CJ2A block under the hood has ‘issues’ they don’t want to touch.

While I am waiting for Santa to find me a M38 GoDevil, maybe a few opinions would be useful about this civilian engine. Could it be used??? and BTW ...are there any restorable MC engines out there???

Here is what the shop said:
* At least two of the sleeves were not pressed to the bottom cylinder shelf.
* The sleeves look ‘thick’.
* There is scoring on the cylinder/sleeve walls.
* There may have been debris left in the block during the sleeving job.
* I should find a better block.

No visible cracks in block or head. Cam & Drive shaft look OK but need bearings / gaskets. Block may need decking. Main concern was the sleeves.

The shop did not mention this, but I later noticed the pistons may have been incorrectly installed with the ‘T’ of two pistons in the wrong position... not sure. Here are some pics.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Wt6huuEkeqmEN1bD6


Last edited by Naugha on Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RonD2
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Joined: Oct 02, 2014
Posts: 943
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Naugha,
Quote:
The sleeves look ‘thick’.

Might be flanged sleeves? (thick at the top). Google it.

Got a real name? Is your last name Hyde? Laughing Where are you on the planet?
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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RonD2
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Joined: Oct 02, 2014
Posts: 943
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Naugha,
I just saw your other post in the Projects thread where you're located in Central Florida. And I should add a hearty "Welcome"!

Has your local machine shop a lot of experience with vintage motors, especially the Willys L134? You say your block isn't cracked badly. What makes them say they can't fix what you listed, other than maybe the steep expense?

There's a member with M38 engines advertising them recently in the Auction thread. Southern Maryland, here: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=12832 Closer than Texas!

Good luck!
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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rgmutchler
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Joined: Sep 28, 2008
Posts: 290
Location: Caldwell, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron has a very good point. How much experience does your machine shop have with flat head engines from the 30'-50's. I had to look long and hard to find a machine shop that had recent and extensive flat head and 134L experience. One of the best sources I found for locating machine shops that knew the older engines was through the local car clubs and asking the folks still using flat heads where to go.

As to locating a MC block. Ebay etc , a lot of searches. Also make contact with Midwest Mil. Mullins, Debella, etc and ask them. I would not email or leave phone messages, but would talk to them directly. Don't count on them putting even a fraction of their stock on the web site or ebay.
MC and RMC blocks are available, just takes time and a lot of searching.
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R G Mutchler
M274A5
M-38 MC13312
http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=rgmutchler&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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Naugha
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Joined: Apr 01, 2020
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone. The shop comes highly recommended from a friend who has successfully restored several vintage autos. Nice folks. Other than the things I listed, I suspect it’s like a surgeon who doesn’t want to get involved with what they consider a risky procedure. I will talk to other shops and contact the suppliers you listed.

Don Alvarez
Retired HS Teacher
Central Florida

‘Naugha’ is an online nickname I used before medication cured my paranoia.
😜 ..... besides, crazy people don’t restore jeeps. 😎
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RonD2
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Joined: Oct 02, 2014
Posts: 943
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Don,
No offense meant with my Naugha Hyde crack, couldn't help myself. I, for one, appreciate conversing with men using real names, or at least not using obviously phony made-up internet handles. At 65, I'm past the games.

Quote:
😜 ..... besides, crazy people don’t restore jeeps. 😎

Not sure I agree with that. I'm on my first ever jeep. Most folks, if they knew what I've sunk into it and what it's really worth, would call me crazy. Besides enjoying the hobby very much, it keeps me out of the saloons....Laughing

I can understand you not wanting to sink money into that CJ2A chain drive motor. I'll keep my eyeballs peeled for a M38 motor. I bought a good rebuildable RMC motor awhile back as a spare for mine for $300. If all goes well and I'm lucky, I expect by the time I get it drop-in ready I'll have $2000 - $2500 into it (yup, more crazy talk). They can be had --- with patience. Got to be ready to pull the trigger, because me thinks good ones don't last long.

You came to the right place. Lots of good folks here, willing to help. And tons of information to be had! Good luck!
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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Naugha
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Joined: Apr 01, 2020
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lurking vintage jeep sites is a great way to get your head on straight about a first time rebuild. I will paraphrase some of my favorite comments and add a few of my own.

* If you just want a nice war jeep to drive around town, in the woods, do a few parades and maybe take to a MVPA event..... put $15-20K in your pocket and shop it to death. You will save money and your hands won’t hurt.

* Don’t keep track of the bill. it’s the journey, not the destination.

* Even honest people don’t know all the stuff wrong with the war jeep they are trying to sell you.

* They didn’t intend for these things to survive the conflict.

* “If you knew now what you will find out later ....” is a depressing phrase that will deny to you life’s greatest adventures.

* Finally, you really can’t take it with you.... just numbers in your portfolio.


Last edited by Naugha on Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RonD2
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Posts: 943
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outstanding! Very Happy
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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RonD2
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Joined: Oct 02, 2014
Posts: 943
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Don,
Keeping this one in mind,
Quote:
* If you just want a nice war jeep to drive around town, in the woods, do a few parades and maybe take to a MVPA event..... put $15-20K in your pocket and shop it to death. You will save money and your hands won’t hurt.


I found you a gem of a motor. It's too late for me, but not for you! See this:

https://midwestmilitary.com/1952-m38-jeep-for-sale/

You could part out what you have to offset the cost and still be well ahead. Anything coming out of MWM is top shelf stuff!

West Virginia is closer than Texas!

Good luck!
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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Naugha
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Joined: Apr 01, 2020
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah !!! That’s a nice jeep !!! Better by far than what I can do.

... but I got pride and grit wrapped up in this project. It’s personal.
... I have blood in this thing (real blood, the stuff that drips down your hand)
....like Ahab’s White Whale, “It tasks me.”

I will have my victory .... or my defeat.
Either way it is my fate, not to be denied.
My obsession ..... not to be shared or abandoned.

heh heh heh ..... heh heh heh. Chuckle Chuckle. heh heh heh ..heh heh heh

Oh my !!!!!!

Is that a little over the top? heh heh heh ..... heh heh heh 😜🤪🤩


Last edited by Naugha on Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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RonD2
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Joined: Oct 02, 2014
Posts: 943
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not at all.....we're all a little crazy here. Some more than others....Shocked

As long as you have a set of tech manuals, a box of common tools, some cash, and this forum --- you can do anything!

At least that's what I keep telling myself. Laughing
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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Naugha
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Joined: Apr 01, 2020
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:54 am    Post subject: MC RMC CJ2A Reply with quote

I have found some L-134 engines and am now faced with a decision on ‘jeep purity’ .... which sounds like (and is) a ‘jeep eugenics’ issue.

Let’s jump right in with no smirks or blushing. Any L-134 GoDevil engine in good condition will make a M38 get ‘’er done, as in put-put down the road.

If no one peeks under the lady’s hood there is no further discussion, but alas ..... those terrible numbers stamped on her block.

Steady now .. How do those numbers affect the lady’s honor, admiration and desirability among M38 owners?

There it is .... do the letters ‘RMC’, like scarlet letters of shame, forever taint the blood line? Is MCxxxxxx the mark of purity with all other designations found wanting?

..... or is this something gentlemen (and ladies) do not discuss in public?
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 15183
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do not overlook the four different castings used over the production life of the M38 by Willys!
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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RonD2
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Joined: Oct 02, 2014
Posts: 943
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don,
My opinion only. We're not in a saloon, so it's ok to discuss the women folk.

While I'm pretty sure, from all other outward characteristics, that the gear driven L134 that I have is an original M38 motor, I can't prove it because the block has been decked (a machining operation that removes the serial number). From what I've researched, and from expert forum member opinions, most often when decked, nobody (including the Army) bothered to re-stamp the serial number where it belonged. This is apparently very common, and I have no heartburn over it.

The spare RMC motor I have does have a serial number. Meaning, in 65+ years it's quite possibly never been decked. When I rebuild it, the odds are very good that it too will need to be decked. There are motors out there like this to be found (both decked and original), and with close inspection, can be very good rebuild candidates.

I would suggest you consider finding a later year model motor, gear driven not chain driven. With the proper casting numbers like Wes advised. I could be mistaken, but believe quality parts for the gear driven motors are more common with better pricing. And by outward appearances, more correct for the discerning M38 gentleman.

Wait until you get to the electrical stuff for the same decision! The ultimate question is what kind of restoration are you after? Factory showroom, as maintained in the service motorpool, a restomod, or just whatever the wallet can afford? I call mine a motorpool, but technically a restomod because it's electricals are 12 volt vice the original 24 volt. The 24 volt parts are rare, expensive to buy, and harder to maintain properly.

Never mind electricals.....wait until you see carburetors and fuel pumps! Laughing

Good luck!
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari



Last edited by RonD2 on Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RonD2
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Joined: Oct 02, 2014
Posts: 943
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Don,
You're looking for casting numbers 641087 (early) or 804380 (later). Both are gear driven.

This old post might help:

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6092&highlight=block+date
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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