Joined: Nov 16, 2021 Posts: 63 Location: NE Washington
Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:38 pm Post subject:
The QTM item is 19".
So still short of the 22" referenced in the manual
Having the manual does do you much good if...
-Vendors are offering the wrong item the honesty believe is correct (but isn't due to wrong buckle or length)
-No one lists part numbers which would make ordering the correct parts easier...the reason for parts numbers in the first place.
And the manual doesn't help a lot by giving a number for a specific buckle type without giving a illustration.
One of the canvas suppliers shows a variety of buckle and there were several types.
So really, I think my confusion and subsequent questions are quite reasonable.
You, of course, are to disagree. _________________ 1955 M38A1 MD 82551
Former owner/restorer of 1977 CJ-5, stock with factory V-8.
Used as a daily driver for seven years.
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1916 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 7:50 am Post subject:
JBJeep wrote:
So really, I think my confusion and subsequent questions are quite reasonable.
I agree.
And the issue isn't limited to straps and buckles.
To some extent, it encompasses every single part on the jeep down to the last nut and washer.
It's part of the challenge of the hobby.
I've learned to embrace it. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1916 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 8:34 am Post subject:
JBJeep wrote:
The QTM item is 19".
So still short of the 22" referenced in the manual
The 22 inches referenced in the manual is for a "raw" piece of strap --- before the buckle is sewn on it.
This is what the "dev-lgh" (developed length) notation means.
After the buckle gets sewn on the strap it's overall length is a bit shorter than the "dev-lgh".
We'd have to see the factory engineering drawing to discover the finished assembly length, and the sewing tolerance (could be plus/minus an inch).
After the strap gets wet and shrinks it's shorter still.
I believe that straps and buckles are listed in the manual this way because most Army posts have canvas repair capability and can make straps with buckles all day long.
The raw length is more important to someone making a strap than the finished length is to the user.
Sometimes comprehending Army manuals becomes art not science.
As for vendors that use Army part numbers?
It becomes clear pretty fast that some are better than others.
What grinds my beans are the ones who don't use part numbers at all and try to tell you "it's correct". Good grief. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Nov 16, 2021 Posts: 63 Location: NE Washington
Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:56 pm Post subject:
Received mine from QTM, excellent service!
I installed them as illustrated and they look great.
Really helps "finish off" the looks of the vehicle.
However, I do not understand why the "loop" at the buckle end is there. _________________ 1955 M38A1 MD 82551
Former owner/restorer of 1977 CJ-5, stock with factory V-8.
Used as a daily driver for seven years.
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1916 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 4:02 pm Post subject:
JBJeep wrote:
However, I do not understand why the "loop" at the buckle end is there.
A footman loop on top of the wheelhouse is supposed to go through that loop in the strap to capture it so it won't get lost.
That's how it works on the M38 anyway.
Any strap with a loop like that was made to be captured.
_________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Nov 16, 2021 Posts: 63 Location: NE Washington
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:05 am Post subject:
I'm probably misunderstanding what you are describing, but how can a sewn closed loop go through a footman's loop?
All the loop seems to do is create a double thickness of material.
It looks like the posted illustration, it is directly being the material hanging down after going through the strap. _________________ 1955 M38A1 MD 82551
Former owner/restorer of 1977 CJ-5, stock with factory V-8.
Used as a daily driver for seven years.
To install the strap on the jeep and remove the strap from the jeep you must unscrew the footman loop and slide it inside or pull itout of the small canvas loop and re-install the screws. That small loop is only there to anchor the strap so when the top is not stowed the strap cannot fall off the jeep. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1916 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 11:05 am Post subject:
Hi JB,
Now you have me misunderstanding what you describe.
So now I'm also wondering if you have a correctly made strap.
Here's a photo of mine (M38) showing the sewn loop being used to capture the strap with the footman loop.
Is this what your strap looks like?
Show us a photo of yours.
(This photo also shows pretty well how a 22-inch raw strap turns into a 19-inch strap when finished.)
_________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
As you can see, the loop near the buckle is 3-4" long.
I don't know why.
The strap works and and I threaded it through the bottom footman's loop and through the outside bracket and top bows, as shown in the posted photo.
So it works and looks right, just wondering. _________________ 1955 M38A1 MD 82551
Former owner/restorer of 1977 CJ-5, stock with factory V-8.
Used as a daily driver for seven years.
Now if you ever forget to reconnect the strap buckle after the top is up or removed and drive into the wind the strap will not blow out of the jeep! _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1916 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:06 pm Post subject:
About all I can say is that the straps you have are advertised being correct for the WW2 MB jeep not the M38A1.
There's no doubt that sewn loop on yours was made for a footman loop.
Without seeing the factory Army-approved engineering drawings for the MB, M38, or M38A1, there's really no way to tell for certain if any strap is truly "correct".
Next best thing is a photo in the Army manuals.
I don't even know for sure if mine are "correct", but they're close to the correct dimensions, have the correct buckle style, are captive like they're supposed to be, and look like the one pictured in the M38 manual.
That's good enough for me.
Unless you're competing for the gold medal at the MVPA convention, sometimes the juice ain't worth the squeeze.
One of the members here has access to some factory drawings, maybe if he sees this he might help by digging some out. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Nov 16, 2021 Posts: 63 Location: NE Washington
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:57 pm Post subject:
Wesk
First, thank you for the photo.
Okay, I'm confused.
The buckle end of the strap has a loop where the metal buckle fits. It is sewn closed so the buckle isn't going anywhere. Three inches to the left (as seen in the vendor photos) there is another loop.
Beyond that (further to the left) the strap is just 1-ply.
That left loop is very securely sewn shut.
The only way a footman loop will fit through that strap loop is if I unscrew the footman loop, place it through the strap loop then reattach the footman loop to the Jeep.
So, is that the trick? _________________ 1955 M38A1 MD 82551
Former owner/restorer of 1977 CJ-5, stock with factory V-8.
Used as a daily driver for seven years.
That left loop is very securely sewn shut.
The only way a footman loop will fit through that strap loop is if I unscrew the footman loop, place it through the strap loop then reattach the footman loop to the Jeep.
So, is that the trick?
Yes, that is what I said a while back in my other posts. You have to unscrew the footman loop to replace the strap! _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Nov 16, 2021 Posts: 63 Location: NE Washington
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:58 am Post subject:
Got it (finslly).
Thanks. _________________ 1955 M38A1 MD 82551
Former owner/restorer of 1977 CJ-5, stock with factory V-8.
Used as a daily driver for seven years.
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