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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - M38 Steering Box issue - help needed
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M38 Steering Box issue - help needed

 
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MarkR1951M38
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Joined: Aug 22, 2016
Posts: 117
Location: Huntsville, AL

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: M38 Steering Box issue - help needed Reply with quote

Hey folks, I have an M38 and am at the steering box build. The steering box I purchased on-line has something in the bottom of the box where the steering rod goes, Can you take a look and does it look like the lower bearing race? I purchased a bearing kit for the box, but may only need the one race for the top and use the existing race in the bottom.

Also, the steering box has a tube coming out of it which I assume is where the horn rod goes down through. But the tube has a flare on the end of it. See photo. when I try to insert the steering rod/gear into the steering box, it stops about where the tube is flared. Is this correct? How would I remove the flare to allow it to go into the steering rod?

My "Post a new topic" does not allow me to add photos. Crying or Very sad

Try using your new album.





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wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 16265
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Post a new topic is not barring you from posting a photo of your gearbox. You must have a URL for your photo that does not require any passwords or permissions to access.

Here's your new Mjeeps album:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album527&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Please take a few momemnts and read these directions:

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10985

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10929

Also spend a little time in my photo albums. There are hundreds of technical photos there.
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Specifically: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album167&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

You must first determine if you have one of the two M38 columns or a civvy column.



Early M38 column


Late M38 column

There I have used your album to post your photos.

That tube in your photo is the hollow guide tube and it only provides a path for the inner rod that closes the switch at the bottom of the gear box when you push your horn button. It stops at the bottom of the gearbox and inside.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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MarkR1951M38
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Joined: Aug 22, 2016
Posts: 117
Location: Huntsville, AL

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again Wes, but I didn't have a steering system when I purchased this M38...I purchased the steering box from Kaiser Willy's and they got it from "an unknown to me" source. I also purchased the steering rod/gear from KW. So I'm blind going into this steering box build.
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 16265
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shouldn't be blind. Use the available manuals. I hope you have been using them. They are free here on our downloads page.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Downloads

The parts manual: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=95

The M38 Maint & Ops manual: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=90

The M38 chassis & running gear manual: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=125

The Ross Strg Manual: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=136
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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MarkR1951M38
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Joined: Aug 22, 2016
Posts: 117
Location: Huntsville, AL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks...I already had all the manuals except for the Ross book...good info. In the second pic down, does that look like the lower bearing race seated in the bottom of the box to you?
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OKCM38CDN
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Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 530
Location: Del City, OK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In the second pic down, does that look like the lower bearing race seated in the bottom of the box to you?


Yes, just did a rebuild of an M-38A1 steering box... Almost the exact same thing... Turn ratio is different if I remember correctly...

As to the Flare, measure it and see if you can match it to a size and see if the same size rod will go into the steering shaft... I do not remember the part having a flare on the end...

Hope this helps...
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Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 201001205
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
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skyjeep50
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Joined: Feb 20, 2007
Posts: 606
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer your questions: Your box already has a lower bearing race in it, you can use that one or the newer one - compare them to check for wear but probably there is little difference. As for the flare, simply file the flare edges down until the steering column fits.
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1951 M38
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MarkR1951M38
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Joined: Aug 22, 2016
Posts: 117
Location: Huntsville, AL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys...big help.
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oilleaker1
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Joined: May 14, 2009
Posts: 972
Location: South Dakota

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto on filing the flare down until it passes through. You still have a problem. There is a circlip that snaps into a groove to hold the race, and balls on the end of the worm shaft. It will stop you from trying to insert the end of the shaft through the race. You need to remove that old race and clip. The riser or tube for the wiring is a push in soft plug affair. Hopefully you can get a puller/finger in behind the race and work it up and out. The repro races do not fit as nice as originals. It has a square shoulder that doesn't want to fit into the machined pocket very well. I filed mine rounder to help get it in. if your old race has a smooth track for the balls, re-use it. John
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MarkR1951M38
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Joined: Aug 22, 2016
Posts: 117
Location: Huntsville, AL

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, thanks a bunch...funny, just last evening I discovered exactly what you are talking about and you are 100% correct. There is a clip under the race and it stops the gear shaft from going down into the race all the way. When I ordered the new races and bearing, they did not come with the clips...KW said they are not required with this new race. (Not sure about that).

Do you know if the tube plug can be pushed/pressed through the housing towards the inside of the box? I could press it thru if it's possible, else I'm not sure how I can get that old race out.
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oilleaker1
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Joined: May 14, 2009
Posts: 972
Location: South Dakota

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know on the CJ cases, the stem comes out the bottom only. Not 100% on the M38 case. Probably the same. Can you make a finger to reach inside the race and slide hammer around in a circle to pull the race up? In desperation, maybe weld a puller rod to it. I also ran into the fact that the repro races are not the same height when assembled and more shims were needed under the top cover to adjust the freeplay on the balls. Omix Ada again. Twisted Evil It's worth trying to save the original race if it's not rusted and rough. John
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MarkR1951M38
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Joined: Aug 22, 2016
Posts: 117
Location: Huntsville, AL

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for your feedback. I was able to remove the race and clip, install the correct bearing sets and got the shaft into the housing. Waiting on another shim set now as the new races are a little higher. Should be ready for steering next week.

Thanks again! You guys rock.
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m38guy
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Joined: Jun 27, 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this is an old post but I am hoping some folks can help me out. I ran into the problem listed below about rebuilding an M38 steering box and finding the lower bearing race a tight fit in the recess for it, with the circlip trapped behind it. I don't see any way to remove the lower race to get that clip out. I was hoping to avoid having to drive out the end plug with the horn wire tube to do this. Does anyone have any answers for this dilemma?

The rebuild kit from KW didn't include the circlip but I saw a post claiming it is not necessary. But if the lower race is a tight fit, how do you drive it in when the bearings are usually installed on the end of the steering shaft with the race held on by the clip and then the assembly inserted in the box? I would have to tap the top of the shaft, using the force through the balls to drive the race in place. Wouldn't that damage the balls?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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wesk
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest to avoid confusion and get a better volume of comments that you move this post to it's own separate posting.

Have you the required tech manuals on your work bench?

They should include the following:
1 - TM 9-8012,
2 - TM 9-1804B
3 - ORD 9 SNL G-740
4 - TM 9-8615 Ross Steering Gear Service Manual

5 - The Civilian Ross Gear Service Manual


The lower race was suppose to be removed along with the shaft. It is not suppose to be setting where it is now. Follow TM 9-8615 chapter 9 pages 92 thru 108 and you should have no issues.

You can download the entire chapter from my photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album840&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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