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ANother M38 steering assembly identification question

 
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arisLgr
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Joined: Dec 25, 2016
Posts: 117
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 3:39 am    Post subject: ANother M38 steering assembly identification question Reply with quote

Hi again!

Summertime and the M38 is again on the road, and all these years this has been achieved in large part thanks to this amazing forum and help from you all, THANKS!

I decided to replace the steering assy that I restored with a kit and instructions from my 2016 post here. However either the kit was not correct or the mechanic (me Sad did a poor job...

My bad box is with number T125888 is this correct ?

I have located a possible NOS with TA122985, IS IT CORRECT FOR MY m38?

Thanks, Aris

P.S. My current box besides being loose, binding and unadjustable, might be the reason for the Dreaded Shimmy that has been haunting me since day one. I've tried replaced ALL other parts and made ALL adjustments on the issue based instructions from my previous posts but to no avail, so still the damper shock is on the car. I hope with a new steering ass i wont need it!
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4x4M38
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aris,
The numbers you list are for the box casting in which the parts are assembled, not the complete assembly.

The early and late M38 box was TA122885.

The Ross assembly until MC31337 was TA13077, WO-801691, Ord 7375345.
After MC31337 the assembly was TA13084, WO-804384, Ord 7412447.

Both assemblies used the same box.

There was no change in steering ratio.

Your TM’s should provide you with the necessary parts.
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Brian
1950 M38
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wesk
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be interesting to find out which gear box housing casting number became which ORD 9 gear box Housing part number. The only place these two numbers would ever show up together is in a factory blueprint or a NOS (NEVER BEEN OPENED/SEALED) box with the contract data stamp still on it showing the ORD 9 Housing assembly part number.

The most common gearbox housing casting number found on the M38 is TA122885. The cover on this box had casting number TA125999.

Ryan's M38 Book lists this housing as the only one used on the M38.

If this is true then all M38 ORD 9 listed housing assemblies WO# 801720 would be casting number TA122885 & have cover casting # TA125999. The other M38 ORD 9 Housing mentioned is the bare housing without cover and hardware WO# 801711 which would still be the same bare housing casting number TA122885.

Now Aris has found a housing casting # TA122985 and his old box TA125888 and I can't help noticing neither is the correct casting for the M38.

Ross Steering gear boxes found their way into dozens of different make/model Farm tractors and other commercial vehicles for a half centuryt so without factory blueprints it will be extremely difficult to pinpoint a useable gearbox unless we stick to the known common casting number.

As already mentioned above and also in the printed Ross Gear Manuals many share many parts common with other model numbers.

With all this info the safe corridor to follow is a TA 122885 gear box casting and then insure the individual parts listed in the M38 ORD 9 for either the early steering gear ORD 9 Assembly Ross Gear# TA13077 or the late Steering Gear ORD 9 assembly Ross Gear # TA13084. There are

Early Gear Assy M38 ORD 9 page 258 Fig 14-2.
Late Gear Assy M38 ORD 9 page 259 Fig 14-3.

The parts specific to each of these are listed on the pages 262 thru 269 and are ID'd by the veh. serial numbers listed for their use.

I will mention the M38A1 steering gear assembly casting is casting number TL122995.


M38A1 Casting


Top installed view of M38A1 casting vs M38 Casting.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

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arisLgr
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Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2024 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you both for the information!
I enquired about the # TA122985 that I am lucky to have found locally and have been told it is NOS (!) that has been bought from the Greek army surplus stock.
For me bringing parts from the US means customs duties on the invoice amount, where shipping is added in order to calculate the fees depending on the description. Additionally, shipping a complete very long steering assy is difficult because not all venues will accept the length. I brought a steering assy for another classic way back and it was very hard to do so I believe I'm lucky with this find.
I only wonder if this particular one might be for the M38A1 or another military classic but if it will work on my M38 it is just great, what do you guys think?
The price is right and if it turns out to actually be a NOS never before mounted unit, maybe I can give you experts some insight, as I honestly get confused with the part numbers at this age!
Aris
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4x4M38
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would humbly suggest Aris take a very close look at that box casting number.

It is one number off from a stock M38 box.

Filth and grime can sometimes cloudy our first impressions of parts.

As far as the M38A1 steering assembly. Although the box will physically bolt in place of the stock M38 box, the ratio is different, and if I remember correctly the rod and tube are longer on the A1 unit.

Not a terrible problem, but it means the wheel will sit further aft. Note also the driver seat frames are different between the two vehicles. Perhaps this was partially to move the driver two inches aft.

Just my two cents…
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arisLgr
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x4M38 wrote:
I would humbly suggest Aris take a very close look at that box casting number.

It is one number off from a stock M38 box.

Filth and grime can sometimes cloudy our first impressions of parts.

As far as the M38A1 steering assembly. Although the box will physically bolt in place of the stock M38 box, the ratio is different, and if I remember correctly the rod and tube are longer on the A1 unit.

Not a terrible problem, but it means the wheel will sit further aft. Note also the driver seat frames are different between the two vehicles. Perhaps this was partially to move the driver two inches aft.

Just my two cents…


Thanks Brian, I've asked the seller to open the box and make sure there is no rust on the innards and send me pics as well for me to post here , meaning I'll have to remember how to do this !!!!![/img]
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Aris
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1954 Mercury Monterey
1968 Corvette Stingray
1973 Mercedes 350SE
1974 Montesa Cota 247T
1982 Kubota B7100
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arisLgr
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew I always get it wrong..... I opened the image on my Chrome, and copy-pasted the link of "copy image address' , but i only get the link written, no picture, help please I got the pictures !

here is how the link comes out


[img]https://photos.fife.usercontent.google.com/pw/AP1GczMuhE4MkzRUMh4AAhknx8keM3QaNjLtoQ8wlGSQi0QydpvShiQbBbcb6g=w1800-h1350-s-no-gm?authuser=0[/img]
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Aris
Willys M38
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1954 Mercury Monterey
1968 Corvette Stingray
1973 Mercedes 350SE
1974 Montesa Cota 247T
1982 Kubota B7100
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wesk
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aris,

Your link is private. Doesn't allow outsiders to visit and view. You need to have a link that is public that anyone including our web site can access it.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

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Ryan_Miller
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2024 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don’t think we have the WO drawing for the steering box. I agree it would be safe to stick with one we know came in the M38.

Can you post photos of the old and new boxes?
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arisLgr
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Testing image post
[img]https://i.imgur.com/fDGgiD9_d.webp?maxwidth=128&shape=square[/img]

[img]https://imgur.com/fDGgiD9_d.webp?maxwidth=128&shape=square[/img]
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Aris
Willys M38
1936 Cord Phaeton
1954 Mercury Monterey
1968 Corvette Stingray
1973 Mercedes 350SE
1974 Montesa Cota 247T
1982 Kubota B7100
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wesk
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Posts: 16300
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That link leads to a tiny illustrated notice about the requested photo is no longer available.

As I mentioned earlier your photo storing site must allow public access to your photo files.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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arisLgr
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/13wGqBR-AbBCsioRexi3AVdykOL3LwRtn/view?usp=drivesdk[/img]
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Aris
Willys M38
1936 Cord Phaeton
1954 Mercury Monterey
1968 Corvette Stingray
1973 Mercedes 350SE
1974 Montesa Cota 247T
1982 Kubota B7100
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arisLgr
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Joined: Dec 25, 2016
Posts: 117
Location: Athens, Greece

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/13wGqBR-AbBCsioRexi3AVdykOL3LwRtn/view?usp=drivesdk[/img]
_________________
Aris
Willys M38
1936 Cord Phaeton
1954 Mercury Monterey
1968 Corvette Stingray
1973 Mercedes 350SE
1974 Montesa Cota 247T
1982 Kubota B7100
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