1952 M170 data plate

[rdsar2k]

The only flaw in my recent M170 purchase was that there were no data plates or serial number plates on the jeep. The previous owner is a friend and he did not recieve them with the jeep. I asked him to see if he could get a hold of the previous ower and ask if he had them. Sure enough he did. I guess he was keeping them for a souvinier. As an added bonus he had the original 1978 Nebraska title (notorized) listing the US Government as the owner selling the vehicle to a Rural Fire Dept. They held it for four months and sold it to a tractor dealer. Thats where the recipts end.
The really odd thing is the data plates and title both state that it is a 1952 model I.E delivery date is 1952 serial # MD-A 11872. The serial number plate has a Willys header verses the expected Willys Overland an there are 9 patents listed verses the 6 expected and seen on other M38A1 Models.
Every where I check seems to state that M170's were built from 1953 to 1962; none say production started in 1952 much less delivered in 1952. what do you think? The plates look like originals and the title is original not a copyfrom 1978.

[wesk]

You're gonna have to post photos of the plates. At least 200 K size.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[rdsar2k]

I couldn't load the pis to my photo album here. My dialup kept timing out
I did get them to photobucket.com
Wesk would you move them over?

Thanks and let me know what you think!

http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc119/rdsar2k/data%20plates/?action=view&current=dataplates.jpg

[wesk]

The photos aren't the greatest but from what I can see you have a hodge podge of plates. The mismatch of finishes and rivets tells a story of plate swapping. The top left, center left, and lower left plates are from an M38.



The top right plate is not clear enough to determine what it is. But it was installed later than the left plates.

The serial plate seems correct except for contract number and the way the serial is stamped. It is also incomplete and the inspectors block is empty.






This Jun 55 serial plate for MD-A12212 shows a MD-A contract number.

I would assume the plates were assembled some time just prior to the 1978 registration certificate. Just who assembled the mix of plates and when will probably always remain a mystery but I doubt very seriously that it was Willys. It could have been any of the government agencies that owned the vehicle.

The patent plate looks close for your M170 if it was newer than 1952. If it were truly a 52 patent plate it should only have 6 patent numbers. I would bet it was a replacement blank tag.



Here's MD-A11425's Patent Plate for comparison.


MD-A12212 still has 6 patent numbers in 1955


MD-A13014 now has 9 patent numbers but note the Willys model designation is now the Kaiser style 57248 instead of MD-A.

Please note I have not questioned the DOD of 10-52. Only the plates. It is quite possible yours is a very early pilot model shipped to the Army before full scale production was underway. This would explain the -630 contract number on the serial plate. I wish I had a photo of 11425's serial plate.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[rdsar2k]

Looking at the maintenance manual for the m38a1/m170 dated 1955, ord 630 is shown on the picture for the data plates for the m170 serial number plate.

[bfr]

I have been doing some digging for my own m170's history...thought you might find this interesting.

here are all the M170 serial numbers I have found along with their respective dates...
10637 4/1954
10691 4/1954
11425 unknown/Mine
11560 6/1954
11584 6/1954
11665 6/1954
11685 6/1954
11869 4/1955
12158 6/1955
_________________
Joel
1954 m170
1966 Kaiser Jeep M185A3/756w/w
1968 Stevens Manufacturing Co M105

[wesk]

Those illustrations are not photos. They are art work and as such have very little accuracy. The contract -630 was for the last 4 months of M38 production and the first 2 1/2 years of M38A1 production. The M170 was a new come along and was the basis for a new and seperate contract. As you can see from the listed serials your serial was preceded by several which have later delivery dates than yours.

This is why I believe your serial data plate is a 1970's or 1980's repop plate which was fashioned after the TM illustration. The same thing happened with the M38. The early repop serial data plates were all stamped with contract -630.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[rdsar2k]

[wesk]

Civilian titles and title applications are of very little real value in determining the DOD of a military vehicle and often not even the serial number. They are filled out at the DMV counter by a clerk who knows nothing about military vehicles and a brand new civvy owner who just wants to get a pink slip and get it on the road. I have seen dozens with the date of surplus sale listed on the title as the vehicle DOD. Imagine trying to explain to a new M38A1 owner that Willys nor Kaiser built any M38A1's in 1984 which is the date on his title.

Willys started each new model run with it's own sequence of serials starting with 10001. Your serial is not as close to the the M38A1 serialization as you speculate. MD10449 is a DOD of 5/1952. MD12017 is a DOD of 6/1952. For your 10/1952 DOD MD serials start with MD245xx thru MD280xx .

All the commonly accepted evidence places your M170 in a DOD range of 4/1955 thru 6/1955. The very obvious data plate substitutions make the 10/52 DOD very shakey.

You can simply re-title it in your name with the original civvy title information and drive it with no problems. But there's always the possibility that in the future when you go to sell it the new buyer may be armed with serialization and DOD data and it may cause issues in the sale. Especially with the mix of plates and the clearly wrong later issue patent plate.

Since you have title history in your possesion back to it's release from the federal governmewnt in 1978 it should be simple to reference the data posted here and ask your DMV to correct the DOD which should not be a problem for them.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[rdsar2k]

I agree that it's looking like it's a 1955 model though the DOD is stamped 1952 not 10 52 so linking it to a month does not apply. Unless you picked up 10 52 from somewhere else.
FYI all: I am really learning what this stuff means. If I conclude that the plates are wrong then this is going to be difficult to gather the right plates as even these differ by year. Please be patient with an elated then deflated newbee

[wesk]

I picked it up from your photo. I made the mistake to assume it was the standard month/year stamp and now realize it's not. The more I look at your plates the more convinced I am that the only plate original from Willys to your jeep is the patent plate which is a 1955 vintage plate. The dash serial plate is just way too different from the normal plates for either the M170 or the M38A1. It appears to be a very incorrect repop plate both in layout, size and stampings.


_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[rdsar2k]

Ok I am a beliver that this must be a 04/55 built M170. Now I just need to decide if the patent plate is correct I.E. should there be MD-A or a Kaiser number. I'd like to believe the Patent Plate is correct at least. NowI need to correct all the dash plates. Woud it be too much to ask if someone has pic's of all the correct plates? I there a place to buy all in a correct assembly? Or am I going to have to sift through what I have to make a set?
Any acurate detailed photos of the upper litter racks? I have access to a very capable and talented machine shop.

I cannot thank everyone enough. I would never have been able to sort through this nor had access to all the info found here especially Wes k for the paitience and picture library also to BFR for his serial number list.

[wesk]

I believe you have your original Patent plate. The 57248 model prefix shows up much later than 1955. The example shown is 1962.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[Zane]

Wes, thats the first brass set ive seen from 62, i have a m38a1 and m170 both from 62 and have aluminum plates, did some still come with brass that late? thanks Zane

[wesk]

On 13014's dash serial plate I can't tell for sure from the photo if it is brass. It is very weathered and could be either. You'd have to ask the owner.

I recieved those photos from Frank Ungar when he put it up for sale.

Price: $12,000.00 or best offer.
Contact Frank Unger - 904-534-9028 cell
912-267-2472 wk
912-264-3892 Hm
fkunger@yahoo.com
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php