I have the "Swiss" kit for the M151 and installed it with the modification notch in the distributor housing allowing the rotation of the new plate by about 45 degrees counterclockwise as shown in the pics above by maeserik. No complaints and runs smooth, but runs best at timing between 10 and 15 degrees BTDC. when i adjust timing closer to the 5 degree mark, it runs ruff. Should I rotate the plate in the distributor more than the 45 degrees counterclockwise that is shown above or less to get the Hall effect closer to the 5 degree BTDC? What rotor cuts are there to be made?
Joined: Mar 13, 2006 Posts: 1079 Location: Richburg, SC
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:43 am Post subject:
I have the same thing happening - runs best at about 10deg and not great at 5deg. Can't answer your question about moving the plate more. As Erik said, he didn't cut the rotor (although his original writeup said you need to - or maybe there was a language barrier there). I don't know if cutting the leading edges would cause the coil to fire early or not (my guess is yes, but how much to trim them?) _________________ Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)
Cutting the rotor skirt was originally a necessity if you didn't rotate the base plate and sensor. I don't think anymore rotation will help with the timing issue. I believe at this point only a change in air gap between the sensor and rotor will do that. I will point out that with modern gas most L&F 134's run better at 10 BTDC. That old 5 deg setting was to deal with very low rated gas as low as 60-70 octane. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Mar 13, 2006 Posts: 1079 Location: Richburg, SC
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:20 am Post subject:
Gotcha - I guess conversion can officially be called complete then (mine anyway)! Totally glad I did it - runs smoother and seems to have a little more power, but that could also be attributed to not having perfectly gapped or old points and condenser also. Thanks Erik for the write-up and pictures and Wes for clarification on other things! _________________ Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)
Joined: Aug 31, 2010 Posts: 1741 Location: SO IDAHO
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:11 pm Post subject:
wesk wrote:
I will point out that with modern gas most L&F 134's run better at 10 BTDC. That old 5 deg setting was to deal with very low rated gas as low as 60-70 octane.
I'm just finding that out. I run 100LL in my M-38. I was tinkering this weekend and found my timing at 10 deg BTDC and thought i'd adj
it to 5 deg to "get it right"-WRONG-bad hesitation and hiccup coming
off of idle. Back to 10 deg and all's well. _________________ keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a
Joined: Apr 08, 2009 Posts: 249 Location: Mariposa, Ca.
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:51 am Post subject:
Wes...you have mentioned before that you drove at highway speed for years going to and from work. Did you have problems with the M series distributors over the years or is there a new parts problem? I am new to these engines so I am trying to learn whether there is a long standing problem or if, as with many V-8's, the electronic ignition just gives a better/hotter spark and less maintenance.
Mike _________________ Mike Wenrich
1961 USMC M38A1, 1965 M416B1 Trailer, 1956 Willys Wagon (Modified)
I still use off the shelf points and condensers as I did since 1971. Still no problem. The only issue I feel is those born before 1955 are comfortable with points, their maintenance and their setting/timing. Those born after that are not comfortable with them because they were raised on almost maintenance free electronic systems with plugs that go 100,000 plus miles. I have used the Pertronix conversions here and there but mostly just for customer's rigs since the 70's and they have no measurable gain in performance. The only gain I have ever seen with them is the maintenance free aspect. A Pertronix and a new set of points and condenser installed in identical distributors, in identical engines and installed properly will perform exactly the same. Hotter spark, easier starting claims are unsubstantiated and are emotional reactions to new parts. If you want these hotter spark and easier starting performance improvements you need to upgrade to a hotter coil and better plugs and wires. Advance timing further and use modern higher octane gas with lead in it. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
I imagine an electronic ignition will draw more juice from the battery at start up? Maybe this system on a 6 volt car is a bit much? _________________ 1943 Willys
Joined: Mar 13, 2006 Posts: 1079 Location: Richburg, SC
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:05 pm Post subject:
It shouldn't draw any more juice than your stock breaker ignition. I have been running mine since April, I think, and I haven't had to mess with it - after getting the timing right. I'm one of the "maintenence free" generation that Wes speaks of. I prefer to have everything to the point that I don't have to tinker with anything constantly. But, with a 60 year old vehicle, thats impossible anyway! I also changed my regulator over to the newer style solid state unit, and my turn signals are also solid state. Only problem is, if these units quit, you can't fix them - and you better have a back up set of points or regulator to get you home! _________________ Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)
I am also a stickler when it comes to calling the hall affect point replacement kit an "Electronic Ignition System" .
1-It is only a mechanical contact point set replacement unit that does nothing more then the same job the points did using the magnetic hall effect system. No increase in spark intensity, horse power and torque has ever been proven to exist after installing this.
2-Electronic ignition systems in today's language is an engine management system that monitors at least RPM, Manifold pressure, fuel flow, coolant temp and exhaust temperature and automatically adjusts the ignition or fuel system to meet demands economically.
With that clear what the Pertronics does is magnetically create the same voltage drop at the same time that the old points did which fires the same old coil the same old way. Pertronics does take a liberal approach and a lot of literary license in the way they describe their product. Bottom line is it saves you the requirement of tinkering with your contact points every 2 to 5 M miles.
The link to Powerspark shows a copy cat of the Pertonix kit and their listed kit is for 6 or 12 V only. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Copy cat and copy cat... These types of "electronic ignition" kits have been around for a long time. I remember installing one on a Kawasaki back in eightysomething. There are only so many ways you can make one, but I will admit I have no idea about the reputation of the companies we are discussing here.
I'm firmly in the "maintenance free" zone, so this kit is for me. I need to take shipping into consideration as well, US vs UK. I'm in Norway, so that is a no brainer.
I have been ordering parts from US many times before (had a couple of Gen 1 Camaros), and some companies refuse to ship outside the US. _________________ 1943 Willys
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