Joined: Dec 09, 2010 Posts: 90 Location: Nipissing Ontario
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:16 am Post subject:
M38A1 CDN 2 and 3 were fitted with turn lamps. It is a bit tricky to add the required wires to your harness but it can be done. Each corner acts independantly from each other, 4 distinct wire runs.
You need a solid state relay and flasher unit as found on M series like the M35A2, and the harness which attaches these two item together.
Your sigs up front will be standard M151 lamp assemblies mounted on the top of the fenders. On the rear you need two M series tail lights the same, having stop, marker and blackout marker bulbs. The stop lamp is the one that is used to flash direction. When you come to a stop, only the side that isn't marking direction will stay on solid, the other side will flash and vice versa.
Perhaps a schematic of the Canadian issued jeeps would help you? Details of this and trouble shooting can be found in the Canadian Army Repair manual. Alternately, have someone build you a harness that includes all this stuff, essentially a factory issue. I know Brian Asbury in Milton Ontario can do one for you if you wantto spend the $$$. If you want to do yourself that is fine too and a rewarding project albeit with some head scratching.
3-The 24 volt civilian Signalstat unit for heavy commercial vehicles and emergency vehicles. Or any of the cheaper 12 Volt Signalstat units and just substitute 24 volt pilot lamp and flasher.
Finally after you decide on which signal system then it's time to consider what needs to be done with the lamps. The common approach is to replace the right rear lamp assembly with a new left one. This gives you two red service lens on the rear but you loose the use of the right rear blackout stop lamp. The Army simply added a small marker type lamp just above the new right rear light assembly for the BO stop function. Additionally you can either buy a pair of Gama Goat tail lights with the full circle red lens or buy just the lens which will bolt right on your light housings.
For the front of the jeep you have three options.
1-Add a new separate amber lens light assembly to each side.
3-Add amber lens to your marker lamps in the grill and change their function from marker/parking lamps to only turn signal lamps. This is not legal in some states which may require front parking lamps.
4-Buy modification sockets for your existing front marker lights to add a second power wire for a dual filament lamp. Then install the new amber replacement lens and that leaves the # of light assemblies on the front of the jeep unchanged.
M151 24V Turn Signal Light Assembly to add to the front of your jeep.
M151 Turn Signal Light Up-Grade Kit has the amber lens, gasket and screws only to use on your existing marker lamps in your grill.
28V Tail Light - Gama Goat Style. Complete light assemblies. You can also buy just the lens which will fit right on your existing rear light assemblies. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject:
I really like the first option you have. Can you direct me to anyone who has that setup?
I bought the Gamma Goat tail lenses. I assume I just need to wire my right rear taillight into my left one.
Do I need to add a bulb, or just an inline flasher, for the taillights to work as turn signals? And again, would I need to do the same thing for the marker lights? I think I've seem places that sell an orange lens that I can swap on.
The easiest option is option 3. The type of restoration you are doing will dictate which option is best.
Factory original jeep = no turn signals.
Motor pool class resto up thru 1970 = The early M series kit.
Motor pool class resto after 1970 = The late transistorized kit.
Daily driver and not interested in restoration correctness = civvy kit.
The option 1 distribution box (relay box) can be troublesome and the correct switch is very hard to find.
The option 2 system is very expensive.
The option 3 system is the least expensive and simplist to install.
I listed the amber lens kit in my previous post for your front marker lamps.
I can be more helpful if I know what level of restoration you are doing and how much of the original wiring , lamps and switches are being retained. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
I agree with Wes and Major, their ideas and methods are the way to go.
I once looked at a very late productiion Canadian M38A1 CDN 3 that had one of the slickest setups I have seen for signals for an M38A1. It even had a backup light made from a blackout marker light mounted on the right under the spare tire. Everything looked correct because it was. It used the 1970's 24 volt transister military system recommended by Wes and Major.
You might also want to look at Nekaf M38A1's for ideas.
I have a very early '52 M38A1 that was fitted with turn signals by the Army in the 1960's-'70's. They used a lamp with a built in metal guard. Mounted on the front fenders like the Nekaf. It is a civilian truck marker available originally from NAPA. Looks totally correct for a military vehicle. Some of the antique automobile light dealers still carry these.
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject:
I would love to keep it as original as possible. Turn the front blackout marker lights into turn signals, us waterproof military wiring. Like I said, I ordered Gamma Goat lens for the back. I want both lights to work as tail lights, and it would be great if I could get turn signals in there too! I would really hate to add big, ugly turn signal lights on an otherwise original looking Jeep. I hat the civilian turn signal switch too-even if I pay more, I'd like to go for the military original, or at least the Mutt series version.
OK, staying with the stock military wiring and the stock main light switch you now have a pair of Gama Goat rear lamps. They only have 3 wires per light assembly. 21 is service tail, 22 is service stop and 460/461 is service turn signals. I assume you are not inclined to retain any black out lamp functions. So your jeep's wires # 23 and 24 will not be connected to anything. You'll have a bit different wiring compared to the MWO listed wiring.
The front markers should be converted to dual function front marker and front turn lamps. Do this by replacing the lamp socket inside the marker with a dual filament socket and replace the original lamp doors (lens) with the new amber style. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jun 09, 2011 Posts: 776 Location: Bellmore, NY
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:46 am Post subject:
You're a wealth of knowledge Wesk, and I appreciate it! I found a guy with that early turn signal kit, and I'm buying it off him. I only hope it has some sort of wiring diagram! I looked at your page 12, maybe I'm just blind, but I only saw something that hooks up to a voltmeter gauge!
Do you know who sells 24 volt bulbs?
Digging up an older post for a question. I'm going to order some amber lenses to replace the front blackout markers. Will the screws that hold the blackout cover on work with the amber lens, or do I need to get new screws as well?
If you are buying the late M151 front amber marker lens then they should work just fine with your screws. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
I was looking into this too. An option I was thinking about was wireless signals. You would have to worry about batteries but they just attach by magnets when you want to travel down public roads. I just need to figure out front signal amber lenses.
I was looking into this too. An option I was thinking about was wireless signals. You would have to worry about batteries but they just attach by magnets when you want to travel down public roads. I just need to figure out front signal amber lenses.
EasyOn Wireless Tail Lights
(Model 101)
Price: US $289.00 plus shipping and handling.
Usually ships within 24 hours.
WE ARE TEMPORARILY OUT OF STOCK AND APOLOGIZE FOR THE INCONVENIENCE.
For that money it's easy to justify just a few easy wiring changes and using any universal civvy turn signal switch kit. Some are available in 24 volt and the others you simply need to substitute a 24 V bulb for the switche's pilot lamp bulb and a 24 V flasher. Those switch kits run $45 to $150.
This is the way to go and adapting these Signal-stat switches to the M38/M38A1 series wiring harness is quite simple.
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