Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:45 pm Post subject: 1952 M38 hood numbers?
I'm doing research on where I can find the numbers on the side of the hood, for a 1952 M38, serial # 62744, with a delv. date of 4-52. It appears to have come from either Air Force or Navy. I don't have much info other than that. Does anyone know where I can look for that number?
It appears to have come from either Air Force or Navy.
What is there about your jeep that leads you to this conclusion? _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject: Please bear with me on this.
Thanks for your replies. Part of my problem, is that I'm doing research for my neighbor and good friend and he's the one with the Jeep, but doesn't do much with computers, so I offered to look this stuff up for him. He told me that the Jeep used to be blue when he got it and has since painted it olive drab. He's looking for the numbers that go on the side of the Jeeps hood, and was told that they are the "license number" of that vehicle. From what I've read, when the Jeep was sent to surplus after it's use in the service, those numbers were probably destroyed. I volunteer at the Rock Island Arsenal Museum, and will do some research there as well.
Towards the end of M38 production the Air Force M38's were starting to get their shorty style registration numbers on the hood. The accepted practice today to choose a registration number for your jeep when all traces of the original are gone is to fabricate the new number using the the correct first few digits or in the case of Air Force the first letter prefix along with the serial number of the jeep. This makes it easily identified years from now as a fabricated number so as not to skewer researcher's research.
If the jeep had been Navy it would most likely have been gray. Several Blue Navy units have surfaced over the years but they are not the norm.
If he were going with Air Force Strata Blue then N-2744 would be ideal. If as you say he has went Army OD with it then an appropriate Army registration number would be 20962744.
Bill gave you a sample for the Air Force and here's on for the Army.
Also I want to point out that the numbers are not centered at the hood's center on each side. They are centered in the available visible space on each side. Not the driver's side view below they are centered between the back edge of the hood and the back end of the BO driving light.
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject: I forgot one question....
I forgot to ask if you knew what the beginning numbers were from and how would he know, as you suggested, if it started with a 209 or a 23 and then his number along with that. What made it a 20 number or a 23 number, as shown in the pictures, and what did those numbers signify?
The 20 represents a light scout car. The rest of the numbers are just sequential. If you look at photos of WWII jeeps you'll see 201xxxx. I have a data base of M series jeep data where I maintain a list of jeep serial numbers versus hood numbers. It is for the sake of maintaining the value and accuracy of this data base that I try to explain to folks not to fabricate numbers from looking at other jeeps. The phony numbers then find their way into our data bases and skewer the works up. I never could understand why folks are so darn set on doing that instead of using their jeep's serial number. The only reason has to be their willingness to live a lie or cheat/fool other folks folks. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: Which number should he use?
I'm trying to understand what you were telling me about the numbers that it starts with (20 or 23) and was wondering what number he should use to put on his Jeep? Should he use the 20 or 23 to start the number and then his serial number? Does any of the starting numbers have to do with the year it was manufactured? Example: 20 would be WWII and maybe 23 would be Korean. The reason I ask, is because in all of the pictures you have sent me, they all start with 23, and those Jeeps look exactly like the one he has.
The 20 series which includes 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, & 29 all are reserved for the scout car category. The jeeps in those photos are Feb 1951 units and they happen to have 23XXXXX numbers. Those built later have 20XXXXX and in May 1951 the Army switched to 8 digit registration numbers.
The Army assigned all the registration numbers not Willys. Willys simply painted them on as they rolled at the door. Jeeps did not roll out the door in serial number order. So do not expect registration numbers to follow serial numbers, they do not. The Army did not care what serial jeep had which registration number. The numbers were assigned by lot to a contract. When the Army issued a contract for 18,000 new M38's they also sent Willys a block of 18,000 registration numbers to use.
Now getting back to your friend's M38 as I said above the correct first three digits for his jeep are 209XXXXX. You should use 20962744. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Apr 23, 2012 Posts: 67 Location: Sun City, Az.
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:19 pm Post subject: 1952 M38 Hood Numbers
Revisited! To soon old, to late smart, me! Looking again at this post I realize that I have probably messed up. Pilotman's post above list a 52 M38, delivered 4-52 Serial #62744. Mine; Serial #65578 is 2834 units later, also delivered 4-52. So I get it that the first 3 numbers should be, as you stated 209. So to be sure then, my hood number should be 20965578. #@$%@ I just painted them and I used the same number that had been there previously.
nice day, roger _________________ regor
1951 M38 #23945
This is an old post and some statements have been repeated out of context.
M38 and M38A1 original Willys applied hood numbers do not match serial numbers in any way.
Original hood numbers had NOTHING to do with the jeep's serial number. They were completely different. When the Army contracted Willys for a batch of jeeps they would specify for example contract # W-20-089-ORD-4758 was the first M38 contract and it was issued 6-6-1949 for $12,000,000 worth of jeeps and spare parts. This broke down to just over 4000 M38's starting with MC10001 thru MC14200. The Hood numbers issued to Willys for this contract started around 2368159 and continued thru 2372XXX. successive contracts were issued with hood numbers starting with: 238XXXX, 2089XXXX, and thru 2095XXXX.
As I have often posted here and elsewhere, one should use his serial number combined with the first 3 or 4 digits of the original hood numbers used near his jeeps date of manufacture if he is unsure that the hood number on his jeep is an original hood number.
If the owner has verified through sanding carefully thru each layer of paint that he has found the original hood number of his jeep because it is on the first layer of finish coat on his jeep above the original primer coat then by all means use that number. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
It looks like the recommended practice to come up with a registration number is to use the three number designation followed by your serial number. To be somewhat correct, a seven digit number would be applicable for an early vehicle, so one would drop the first digit of the serial number, correct?
An issue I see is that with low numbered serial number vehicles, one could have a hood number lower than the first M38 assigned production hood numbers. Is that a problem? Would someone get nicked in a contest?
Also, looking at the two photos in the post above...
The first photo looks to be of the first 200+ units built by Willys given the hood numbers in the photo. 1950 maybe?
The second photo is at a later date possibly the 1952 noted in the text due to the same hood number information.
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