Winch drive

[davem201m38]

All this talk about winches in Europe and things has got me thinking. I'm surrounded by 4X4 nuts whom seem to think a Ramsey or Koenig clone might not be too hard to come up with. Famous last words, I bet. If it was that easy everybody would have one. But it seems to me I wont learn if I don't try.
Certainly old 50s60s 70s drum winches are not hard to come across, exactly what they are is another matter. Many of our smaller vehicles that the military have scrapped in there 10s of thousands were fitted with very similar winches to those I've seen mounted on jeeps
So I'm about to start searching for old drum winches to see what I can come up with.
I have my friends already on the case as I write.
There will be smaller 8000lbs type winches that will fit within the chassis rails.
The shafts between the winch and the PTO wont be too hard to put together from standard 4x4 stuff.
As usual the PTO stuff I all ready own is all the wrong stuff.
What I need to know,
1. Looking forwards which side did the winch PTO go down, the left??
2. Do the winch drive PTOs still crop up at affordable prices.
3. Appoximately what is the diameter of the winch drum with rope, here I'm worrying about clearance between the winch and the steering bell crank and tie rods.
4. Any pictures of what I might be looking for (I already know what the end of a Koenig looks like)
Thanks,
Dave

[davem201m38]

Update
Boy things sometimes move fast.
I've checked TM 9-8012 tO 36A5-2-41 page 215. And I can now see what this winch looks like.
It does take the drive from the left.
The 4x4 boys have been on the phone and may have found a similar looking winch, I see its quite different to the Koenig ends I found at the weekend.

I need to know in order to see if the one they've found is compatable,

1. The largest diameter of the winch which I guess will be the ends.
2. The width of the winch to the outside of the winch end caps
3. Do the winch PTOs crop up for sale.
Thanks,

Dave
PS.
This is obviously not THE winch just a similar winch.

[davem201m38]

OK, here's a winch I just bought to go on either the M201 or the m38, it'll come in handy on our Green Lane runs etc. It's a Ramsey KX200-R
As far as I can tell I don't think the rope has ever been un-wound!
What can anybody tell me about this winch apart from a 8000lb pull?
It came off a very low production run Kaiser custom (1973?) Right Hand Drive export jeep, type similar to CJ5/M606/M38A1 with 24volt I suspect for the Pakistan Air Force which probably ended up with the UN.

This is the drive shaft,

It's 60 inches long. The carrier bearing is looser than I'm used to, more like a tractor 3 point linkage eye. I'm trying track down the jeep it came off. But at the moment I don't have a pto
The PTO end looks like it locates on a 1inch diameter shaft, is that a standard size pto drive shaft size?
I figure the drive must be long enough for either the M38 or M201 application but just in case, how long is the drive shaft on an M38?

Any advice or comments VERY VERY gratefully accepted.
PS. I can't for the life of me get these pictures toi work so please look in my gallery.
Thanks,
Dave

[Ryan_Miller]

Dave,

That is a neat looking set up.

A couple of the members on this site have a winch on thier M38. I don't remember specifically which ones, but I am posting here to keep it up toward the top of the message list.

I'll see what I can dig out for photos of the Ramsey 50R after work today. I have some photos that I got from Wes somewhere on my computer.

Thanks for sharing the photos!
_________________
Ryan Miller
MVPA # 22010

[davem201m38]

Thanks Ryan,
I think the UJs on the drive shafts are too big to get clearance so I'll have to find some slim line UJs, funny thing I was at a place called 'diggerland' www.diggerland.com near where we live, kids (and adults) can play with real JCBs etc, anyway, they have these custon built tractors for kids (and parents) to drive and bugger me..... if the steering shafts don't use those slim line UJs. Quite how I'll put it together I don't know.
I'm after the incorrect PTO drive, I think I've got one sorted. I'd love to have the correct one but that just isn't going to happen.
Also I'm chasing the CJ5/M606/M38A1 hybrid, custom built by Kaiser that this winch came off.
I've checked the download here and this winch looks similar to the 50R. I just wish somebody could tell me something about the KX 200 R that I have here.
Looking at the mounting frame I'm not sure how it will mount the M38 A1 this came off seems to have bolts on the top of the chassis where as the m38 bolts are in the side of the chassis.Anyway, it a start.
All the best,
Dave

[wesk]

Dave,
The KX200R was for the Station Wagon.








_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[davem201m38]

Thanks Wes,
I appreciate the time that must have took to find and scan and post, many thanks again.
For some reason I can't access the Ramsey winch site, or I would have.

The data is interesting, I can just about make it out on my lap top, some I can't, increasing the zoom just makes it harder to read. A couple of questions for anybody that can answer them.

1. Looking at the specs it seems these winches are all the same, so just what exactly are the differences, are these differences in the mounting frame, width of winch or other.

2. What do the prefix 'K' and 'X' actually mean, what does '200' stand for and what does the 'R' stand for on the end


At the moment I'm trying to track dowm the remains of the kaiser jeep with the insurance people the story goes like this.

Couple of years ago a white, immaculate jeep turned up in England for sale at a place called 'Richmond' I enquired about the jeep via email, but the answer I recieved was in some kind of Afro-Carribean patois...... so I assumed it was Richmond LONDON and walked away. I almost never never deal with Southen'ers when it comes to vehicles.
Anyway, as I say it turned out to be Richmond, North East England which I found out when I went to a local Steam fair and low and behold the said jeep turned up in the condition it was in when it left the factory. The condition was SO good everybody was immeadiately suspicious as was the story that went with the jeep that was slightly odd.....

The jeep was said to be a Willys the owner was very keene to stress the word Willys at every opportunity, (the use of laugauge is slightly different here) which has conotations attached here as Willys colloqially means flat fender either ford or Willys. The plates said Kaiser and were in English and gave a date of 1973, but looked like the jeep, brand new.

It was said the jeep had belonged to the Pakistan Air Force and had been used for ceremonial duties only, the mileage was about 3000 I think, it had laterly supposedly been with the UN and hence the white colour.

Now, Pakistan is a poor country, more so back in 73. They have neighbouring countries that build jeeps under licence, Mahindra for example. So why would they spend hard earned currency buying expensive vehicles from the US when the same vehicle could be purchased locally much cheaper, did I mention that this jeep was Right Hand Drive? Also, Pakistan is not known for diposing of mint vehicles.

This jeep had everything and all mil spec. , working lamps at the rear, winch, morse lamps on the wing, blackout system, heater!, pioneer tools, rifle racks etc. Most of us looked at it and decided, 'If it looks too good to be true it probably is.' and walked away.
Thing is....... it was genuine!!
They were a very small custom built export order for the Pakistan Army, but ended up with the Air Force. Somebody here must know more about these.
It sold to a guy down the country via epay.
Then shortly after it had a wiring fault (probably all those optional extras!!) and burnt out. The families dog was in it at the time so I think it was genuine.
It was dragged off the road and put into a restorers yard till the insurance was worked out.
Now comes the next twist in the story.
The jeep carried by this time a personalised reg plate (tags) and as long as the jeep owner hung on to these the insurance co. refused to pay the storage bill, but this only came to light after the owner had ran up several months of storage fees. So..... as part of the deal with the garage he told them to strip it of anything they could sell which is how I've got hold of this winch.
Sadly the remains of the jeep left for the breakers a while ago and thats what I'm now chasing.

I'm going to see how it fits on the M201 and M38 later today.
Thanks,
Dave

[wesk]

I think you'll find that basically the 200 Ramsey winch is the same in all applications. It's the drive line and mounting bracketry that make the installation numbers different.

For the full size photos on most of my posts just go to my "Mypics.com Gallery: which is open to the public.
http://wsknettl.mypicgallery.com/
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[davem201m38]

Thanks Wes,
Today I took the winch out of its bed frame (we call these things bed frames because they are made like old bed frames) anyway.... after lots of head scratching I figure that with some hack sawing and some quality stick welding the frame will adapt nicely.
It looks like this winch frame mounted on the flat top of the chassis rails, those bits need removing and two brakets like the ones for the 50R as shown here on the download area need fabricating. I'll probably have to use long O holes to get some up-down adjustment, I can always weld up the elongated end later.
I can't believe how tight the clearance is between the steering and the front cross memeber for the drive.
I can't see anyway to use the original M606/M38A1 drive shafts as the UJs are (look) too big.
Hopefully this week I'll get a lead on the remains of the jeep, a R.H.D steering box is like gold bar over here, axles, PTO.... I must stop I'm starting to salivate.
Thanks for the effort, much appreciated,
Dave