Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject: M38 Axles
I'd like to overhaul the axles on my M38. I've got the TM from the web, but am looking for some 'tribal knowledge' out there. Any special tools required? How long should it take to overhaul each side, left and right and the pumpkin? I'm wondering if I'd be better off to take the whole axle to a reputable shop and let them make it new again? A Dana 25, correct? Should be basic work for any axle shop??
25 or 27 front and 41 or 44 rear. Depends on what's been installed there and by whom.
The big issue is the pinion setting tool/fixture. Bearing removal tools can be fabricated. Best to go with an axle pro. If you insist on trying it on your own get a copy of the civilian jeep manual SM-1002 and download the applicable Dana/Spicer manuals from their web site. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: May 14, 2012 Posts: 150 Location: Milford CT
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject: imho
I'm right in the middle of doing exactly that right now, only 'special' tool I had to borrow was the 2-1/8 socket for the axle nuts. Be prepared for a LOT of grease to remove, and you'll probably find (as I did) that the pinion yoke has to be replaced or shimmed by a specialty shop. Replace the seal, of course! Not a hard job, just REAL messy. Parts are easy to find. re the shimming, I understand they can place a stainless 'shell' over the yolk, lots cheaper that way!
Good Luck _________________ "Frugality keeps me in the Game"
1952 M38 Project "Lazarus"
1951(?) M100 Trailer
1956-60 USAF Special Weapons Program
http://www.bill-capes.com/insanity - Updated 04/26/14
Joined: May 14, 2012 Posts: 150 Location: Milford CT
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:47 am Post subject: Dana manuals
Apologies, I said 'shimmed' and I wanted to say 'sleeved'. Spent the morning trying to find either SM-1005 or the appropriate manual from Dana. All I can find is Model 30 and greater from Dana, and the internet seems to have never heard of SM-1005. ORD 9 SNL G-740 doesn't show any shims, so I'm a bit confused. (Wes, apparently we posted at almost the same time, so I didn't see your response till today) _________________ "Frugality keeps me in the Game"
1952 M38 Project "Lazarus"
1951(?) M100 Trailer
1956-60 USAF Special Weapons Program
http://www.bill-capes.com/insanity - Updated 04/26/14
Joined: Nov 01, 2011 Posts: 199 Location: Escondido, CA
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject:
My son and I completely rebuilt both axles in our M38, and I've done the same job on a '55 Chevy rear axle. I'd put replacing axles bearings and seals in them on a "medium" level, and rebuilding the differential and/or replacing pinion bearings and seal on a "difficult" level in the overall range of vehicle repair work. For the former, you'll need pullers and pressing tools, but other than that, fairly straightforward. For the latter, you'll need those tools plus a case spreader (optional - I made mine, but that was a project in itself), dial indicator, a way to measure the pinion bearing preload torque, a way to torque the pinion nut, and hefty amount of care and patience and attention to detail. I like meticulous, technical work, so I didn't have a problem with that, but if that is not your bag you might be better of sending it out. We had to put a new ring and pinion in the front axle, and it took a lot more iterations of shimming the carrier and pinion bearings to get the gear mesh and pinion preload correct than it did with the rear axle using the old gears.
In addition to the info in the tech manual, we used the installation instructions found here: http://www.yukongear.com/Manuals.aspx There are a lot of other websites with equivalent info.
capesw: The bearing shims are shown in Figure 10-3, p. 213 of ORD 9 SNL G-740 for the front axle, Figure 11-3, p. 228 for the rear axle and listed in the following pages for each. _________________ Jim McKim
1952 M38 son-father project
Slowly turning rusty parts into OD parts
A wee bit of confusion was inserted into this post.
The sleeve that Bill mentions is the redi sleeve used to repair a grooved seal surface on the yoke.
The shims are used to set pinion bearing preload.
The pinion setting tool (or fabricated dial indicator mounting system with machined measuring blocks) is still a necessity when setting the pinion to ring gear fit.
The pumpkin spreader tool isn't absolutely necessary. I have got the third members out of the Dana 25, 41 & 44 without it.
SM1002 is readily available from Turner and Portrayal Press and is very often seen on Ebay.
FC & FJ JEEP PUBLICATIONS - SERVICE MANUALS - Original ...
www.originalreproductionsllc.com/details.html?cat_id=7This supplement to the Willys Service Manual, form SM-1002-R3, covers the service and maintenance for the 'Jeep' Fleetvan FJ-3. Where information in the ...
Does 1955 mech's manual exit? (CJ3B Bulletin Board)
z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/ar/t2672.htm
2 posts - 2 authors - Mar 5, 2011
I've got a 1953 mech's manual, is there a 1954 or 1955 mech's manual which would ... There are a multitude of Jeep publications that were printed by. ... SM 1002 (195X), SM 1002 R1 (1957), SM 1002 R2 (1958), SM 1002 R3 ...
Universal Jeep Service Manual - CJ2A, CJ3A, Early CJ3B
store.midwestjeepwillys.com/sm-1002-r6.htmlUniversal Jeep Service Manual - CJ2A, CJ3A, Early CJ3B. Universal Jeep Service Manual - CJ2A, CJ3A, Early CJ3B. Item# SM-1002-R6. $44.05. Call for Part ...
Joined: May 14, 2012 Posts: 150 Location: Milford CT
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:52 am Post subject: Invaluable
NO ONE should attempt to restore an old jeep without becoming a member of this group! My simplistic answer was based on only replacing the pinion seal, I didn't realize the depth of repairs sometimes necessary to truly 'overhaul' an axle.
As the modern generation says, 'My Bad'!
Thanks, all! _________________ "Frugality keeps me in the Game"
1952 M38 Project "Lazarus"
1951(?) M100 Trailer
1956-60 USAF Special Weapons Program
http://www.bill-capes.com/insanity - Updated 04/26/14
Wes,
In you first post on this topic you mention SM1002
"The big issue is the pinion setting tool/fixture. Bearing removal tools can be fabricated. Best to go with an axle pro. If you insist on trying it on your own get a copy of the civilian jeep manual SM-1002 and download the applicable Dana/Spicer manuals from their web site."
In your last post you mention SM-1002 and put some info from Portrayal Press, I assume that this last reference number is the correct number for the manual.
In the info you posted it lists the SM-1002 with several extensions, R2, R3, R4 and R6. For the M38 which iteration is the most useful. If I read the descriptions correctly it appear that the R6 version would most likely cover the M38.
I have looked at these manuals based on your suggestions in the past but was never sure which one would be most applicable.
Thanks _________________ R G Mutchler
M274A5
M-38 MC13312
http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=rgmutchler&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Joined: Nov 02, 2007 Posts: 437 Location: Seguin, Texas
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject:
Just so I can say I said something.....one of the biggest problems I had was finding the prussian blue ink that you use to analyze the interaction of the pinon and the ring gear. NAPA and O'Reilly's both said, "you want what?".....AutoZone and Advanced both kicked me out.....I finally found it at Grainger.....and when the tube arrived it looked like it was a bazillion years old. It worked though....so I was happy. And when its all said and done and you're cruisin down the road at 50 mph and you start to thinking about that ink pattern and whether the pinon was too far in or too far out....or that the ring gear was too far left or too far right.....I'm guessing you're gonna let off the gas just a bit........I know I am!! Seriously.....punkins is difficult.....not impossible......but definitely not something one should tear into without a very thorough understanding of what each and every component in a differential does. It was fun for me...... once I got over the frustrating part...which was....uh...yeah.....the whole darn thing. Good luck.....and just fyi.....get a really good dial indicator with a really good magnetic base and adjusting arm.....and a dial caliper to measure shims......and a pair of those honed out carrier bearings so you don't have to keep pressing on and pulling off the carrier bearings......I honed out a pair of brand new cones and it worked great. _________________ Jim
Joined: Nov 01, 2011 Posts: 199 Location: Escondido, CA
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject:
wesk wrote:
The pinion setting tool (or fabricated dial indicator mounting system with machined measuring blocks) is still a necessity when setting the pinion to ring gear fit.
In our case, the new ring and pinion didn't have the setting numbers inscribed on them to use in conjunction with the setting tool as described in the manual, so we had to use the contact patch method.
wesk wrote:
The pumpkin spreader tool isn't absolutely necessary. I have got the third members out of the Dana 25, 41 & 44 without it.
That's why I said "optional". We found it was a lot easier getting it out than back in, using the tilted bearing cup method described as an alternative to the tool in the manual. After struggling with it a number of times, and ruining a set of bearings from not doing it quite right, I decided to make a tool. _________________ Jim McKim
1952 M38 son-father project
Slowly turning rusty parts into OD parts
Try not to mix the several different procedures up.
Pinion position (forward/aft) is set up using the pinion number, shims and the pinion setting tool.
Pinion bearing preload is a separate task.
Ring gear bearing preload (shimming) and ring gear positioning/backlash setting is a separate task and requires additional tooling. This is the point where you check ring gear tooth patterns.
Differential (spider) gear adjustment is a separate task.
I don't recall seeing US built ring and pinions not having numbers from the factory. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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