Joined: Dec 09, 2010 Posts: 90 Location: Nipissing Ontario
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:23 pm Post subject: 1953 frame number info sought M38A1
I went to look at a jeep today that has frame number 53-33136. It is a M38A1 and has Toledo data plates. It is here in Canada, what confuses me is that Canada ordered and purchase A1's that were built by Ford in Windsor Ontario. I am suspiciuos that this is a US built jeep, part of the story makes it out to be a Canadian jeep but the data plates indicate USA heritage. I know plates can be changed but the interesting part is that this jeep went to surplus prior to 1978. Any ideas????
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:22 pm Post subject: 70/71 M38A1s
The last of the Canadian M38A1s were delivered in 1970 and 71. They were designated M38A1 CDN3.
The main difference between the 1967/68 CDN2 jeeps was the brakes.
The CDN3 models use self adjusting brakes on all 4 wheels much like the ones on civilian cars (those without disc brakes on all 4 wheels). The brakes were also wider than the 67/68s which used the same stuff as the 53 model jeeps.
The wheel cylinders on the CDN 3s were also different sizes than the 67/68 jeeps.
The 67/68 and 70/71 model of jeeps run an internally regulated alternator system with triple belts as opposed to the earlier generator/regulator charging system with dual belts.
Some minor instrument changes are also present on the dash, this being a battery condition/voltmeter gauge in comparison to the earlier ammeter system.
The 67/68 and 70/71 Canadian models also use the M151 air filter assemblies which makes for some fun when shown in the US and the judges aren't familiar with the differences between the US and Canadian models.
Most of the M38A1 parts will interchange between the earlier models and the later ones. The 67/68 and 70/71 jeeps also came with hot water crew compartment heaters as standard equipment. That was appreciated in the winter. The earlier 53 model jeeps didn't come with any heaters and that made for cold days in the field!
Dash mounted fuel injection pumps and slave cable receptacles were also standard on all the Canadian jeeps.
The 53 model Canadian jeeps had a convoy light that shone onto the white painted rear differential and were built in Canada by the Ford Motor Company. Brass data plates were on the dash.
The 67/68 contract jeeps were built by Kaiser Jeep of Canada in Windsor and used an aluminum photo type data plate set on the dash.
The 70/71 jeeps were built by Kaiser but built in the USA. They also had the aluminum photo type data plates. These plates faded in the sunlight over the years.
Canadian model jeeps are not that common compared to the US variety. The last were phased out around 1989. Only about 800-1000 of each model was accepted.
Canadian jeep contracts were signed in 1953 and in 1967 with the balance delivered in 1968 and again in 1970 with the balance delivered in 1971.
Jeeps were assigned the numbers of 32XXX, 08XXX and 09XXX ranges. The Canadian Army/Forces Registration numbers have no connection to the vehicle serial numbers until the Iltis series where the last 5 digits became the vehicle's registration number.
Hope this helps somewhat.
_________________
Has owned 1944 Chev 15 cwt, 1943 GPW, 1967 M38A1CDN2, 1970 M38A1CDN3, 1953 M37CDN, 1967 West German "Munga", 1975 Dodge M-880CDN. cliver@rogers.com
Hello Wes
please feel free to share my email with the group.
I think he was referring to the first contract of M38A1 jeeps built for the Canadian forces. This would have been for 700 or so M38A1 CDN jeeps that were produced at Ford in 1953. The M38CDN contract was concluded in 1952 so I do not think they were produced together. I think the term "turned over" referred to all the production data for the M38 in 52 and the data for the M38A1's was turned over in 53 to the Department of National Defence. Hmm . I wonder if it still exists in some archive in Ottawa.
Steve
Yes I know. That is what I just posted above were the three production runs and by whom for the M38A1 CDN's. If you have a CAR # on the frame then the frame is CDN. If you have US Dash plates and serial plate then the plate set is US and if you have a patent plate on the front end of the right front wheel house you have a US tub. Or you have US plates purchased by a previous civilian owner at a Jeep show in the US or Canada that he then installed on the jeep. There are probably a dozen or more hypothetical possibilities but I believe the only positive answer to your question is to be had by interviewing each previous owner. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Dec 09, 2010 Posts: 90 Location: Nipissing Ontario
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject:
Hi Wes
That is indeed the situation.
I have the number stamped in the front frame rail 53-33136.
The data tags are American and the tub is a Toledo tub.
I understand that the previous owner could have easily swapped the data plates although the current owner has no knowledge of this and he has owned it for 35 years. Possible he forgot if they were changed.
There was one previous civilian owner and no way to contact to ask questions.
The jeep was purchased in an area of Ontario Canada that had a large military base, workshops and stores where much of the Canadian inventory was surplused out.
Were US M38A1s ever stamped with the frame rail serial number?
Not by Willys or Kaiser US. Some Army repair and overhaul depots would stamp the hood number or the serial number on the frame when a jeep started through the overhaul process. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Reviving an ancient thread here, but I have a similar situation here. My M38A1 has US data plates, and the plate on the passenger side wheel well. Plates give a DOD of 2/53, and it has the hinged grille, early battery box, etc. HOWEVER.... It has a primer pump, Canadian Army type turn signals, heater, AND a convoy light, complete with white diff housing. The previous owner bought it from the Canadian Army in the 70's, and it has been registered as a '53 Willys from that time on. Haven't found a CAR # yet, it might be buried under an inch of paint.
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The previous owner bought it from the Canadian Army in the 70's, and it has been registered as a '53 Willys from that time on. Haven't found a CAR # yet, it might be buried under an inch of paint.
