Joined: Feb 20, 2007 Posts: 606 Location: Illinois
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:07 pm Post subject:
I haven't seen any breakdown of the plastics or hoses with the sprayers with oils or brake fluid yet. Good tip on air in brake fluid but the sprayer is very low pressure (less than 8 psi) and doesn't really churn the fluid, seems to just push it down the hose and lines. Plus, I'm careful not to shake the sprayer and fill it by letting the fluid run down the inside rather than splashing it. I haven't had problems with air in the brake system since bleeding after repairs so I guess it worked out ok. The bleeder is connected to the regular military master cylinder cap with the vent line hook-up. You have to "turkey baster" out a little fluid after bleeding since the cylinder will be full. _________________ 1951 M38
Joined: Aug 31, 2010 Posts: 1741 Location: SO IDAHO
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:13 pm Post subject:
madmike wrote:
The results are in. Well crap. there are no results. . Further to follow .
With all you've done so far i can't imagine not seeing any pressure at
all when cranking. Are you using a known working guage and sender
with proper grounding and hookups? Valuable info here..
http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=46 _________________ keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a
Rick brings up an important point. If you know that 24 volt electric oil pressure gauge and sender worked before and will work now great. If you are not 100 % sure about both it and the temp gauge I keep mechanical gauges on the shelf for the first fireup of my engines. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Apr 08, 2009 Posts: 249 Location: Mariposa, Ca.
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:03 am Post subject:
Here is last night's update. Got the distributor part (cam lobe from a civvy dist.) and found that I had the same problem. Two lobes with .020 point clearance and two with zero. Took the dist. apart suspecting a bent shaft and found same. Have now ordered a rebuilt one and hope to get it tomorrow. The civvy shaft is a different length but otherwise looked the same.
Borrowed a friends M38A1 dist. and fired up the engine after again dropping the oil pump and clocking it because my dist. had been set up 180 degrees off. I am getting good at dropping the oil pump.
Fired up the engine and was pleased it ran. Started very quickly with no backfire but also no oil pressure noted. Today I will borrow a pressure gauge and try again. Camp Delta is getting closer if I have pressure and just a bad gauge or electrical problem. _________________ Mike Wenrich
1961 USMC M38A1, 1965 M416B1 Trailer, 1956 Willys Wagon (Modified)
Joined: Apr 08, 2009 Posts: 249 Location: Mariposa, Ca.
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:23 pm Post subject:
More progress. She runs!!!!!!! The oil gauge is inoperative. Not certain which component(s) are bad but an independent gauge shows good, actually great oil pressure.
The temp gauge is also inoperative and I have a new sending unit to try. I have a hand held laser gauge and temps were just fine. Ran it about 15 minutes and had one oil leak at the rear of the valve cover. After that repair I may try the clutch and gears. If those work...Camp Delta here I come.
BTW, the rebuilt dist looks and works great. There is a little lag when running the engine to higher speeds. Kind of like when an accelerator pump is not working. Being a newly rebuilt engine, I know I will have details to work out but the highest hurdle is behind me.
I need to research how to trouble shoot the oil sending unit and the gauge but those problems are minor now. Thanks to all who helped and maybe someday I can post some pictures.
Mike _________________ Mike Wenrich
1961 USMC M38A1, 1965 M416B1 Trailer, 1956 Willys Wagon (Modified)
Joined: Aug 31, 2010 Posts: 1741 Location: SO IDAHO
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject:
GOOD NEWS!! We knew you could do it.
I wondered about your pressure gage (as i pat myself on the back)
Be sure to go to Bob Westermans
24V inst troubleshooting guide and study it, i did and had all my gages
and senders diagnosed in an afternoon.
Did you paint during your resto? One of the biggest culprits is poor
ground from the gage to panel and panel to dash (dont ask how
i know this ) . _________________ keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a
Joined: Apr 08, 2009 Posts: 249 Location: Mariposa, Ca.
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:02 pm Post subject:
Thanks for the good words Rick. Yes I did paint it and I have a ground that has not been attached yet as it looks to need a place to bolt and I have not located that yet. The internal ground on the wiring for the instrument cluster may be something to trace out.
I had an oil leak on the line at the rear of the valve cover on the head. Put a new fitting there and the leak is sealed. Also put a new sending unit on the temp gauge at the same time. Surprisingly the oil gauge now works but not eh temp. Don't know what I did but i disturbed something. I will research the site you recommended.
Took it for a quick spin. That was a neat moment. _________________ Mike Wenrich
1961 USMC M38A1, 1965 M416B1 Trailer, 1956 Willys Wagon (Modified)
Mike the M38A1 only had one ground strap at the right front engine mount. It bolted to the rubber engine mounts rear frame bolt and to the front engine plate just below and inboard of the generator's front pivot bolt. Look in your TM 9-8014 page 188.
When Willys assembled the jeep many bolt holes were unpainted or serrated type star washers were used to get a good bond between body parts. When most folks restore their jeep they throw a LOT of paint on it then they never take the time to clean the area around each bolt hole to insure a good ground/bond exists throughout the jeep. There are small drill type round wire brushes that are used to clean the seating surface for the bolt heads and washers. These have a smooth pilot in many sizes like 3/16" and 1/4" and then the brush is about 1/8" larger in radius.
The answer now to bad ground issues is to install ground straps. Usually one between the instrument cluster and the firewall and one between the gas tank and the tub will solve gauge issues caused by bad grounds. Also the gauges them selves must have a good ground between their case and the cluster panel. So the edges of those squarish "U" brackets that retain the gauges in the cluster must be bare and the spot on the cluster panel they rest on should be sanded bare. The nuts and washers used to fasten the gauges to the "U" brackets must also be clean, bare and tight.
A failure to provide good bonding between all the jeeps parts that must provide a ground path for electrical circuits will raise the resistance in those circuits causing errors in gauge readings, dim lights and short lamp life. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Apr 08, 2009 Posts: 249 Location: Mariposa, Ca.
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:53 am Post subject:
That is really good info on the grounds. In previous threads I had noted the paint problem with grounds and was careful about that. But I had not considered the instrument panel or fuel tank needing a ground of it's own. That info. might be good to post in a separate thread/subject unless that has already been done. This could be the problem with the gauges because the dash and instrument panels were both painted and I did not remove paint from the areas mentioned.
Also, there is a ground that has an L shaped bracket, wire # 85 I believe, that was loose when I got the A1 and I have not seen a logical place to attach it. It has a loop on the L that would indicate it needs a bolt and is connected as one of two wires that are the ground for the spider harness on the cluster. It could be the problem as well. It's too short to reach the firewall so it may have been bolted under the dash.
Will be working on that this weekend. _________________ Mike Wenrich
1961 USMC M38A1, 1965 M416B1 Trailer, 1956 Willys Wagon (Modified)
That is not a grounding bracket. It is the stowage bracket for the #85 wire when it is not used to power an accessory. Essentially the #85 wire replaced the auxiliary power receptacle on the firewall that the early M38 had.
If you were to review both this web site and the G503 web site you will find several hundred references to how important good, clean, tight grounds are and the same suggestions for improving grounds at least a few hundred times since 1995.
The key to handling these problems lies in each person's background. The detailed explanation of basic sound maintenance practices are not listed in a TM 9-8014 or a 55 Chevy factory service manual. Those manuals were written by authors that were directed to target the manuals at experienced mechanics/technicians. So a hobbyist venturing into this arena without this background will often run into these problems and these problems will usually cost the hobbyist time and money. The simple things experienced mechanics do without thought or hesitation are often the barriers that take a lot of fun out of the hobby for the hobbyist.
Life before the internet (90's) was very different. One had to read well written auto restoration guides or ask an experience old timer mechanic in person a lot more. Today the web is a tremendous help but can also hinder solid progress sometimes as well. All too often we experienced mechanics will answer a hobbyist question on a problem with a very quick, abbreviated answer and just assume that the hobbyist is aware of the industry standards and common maintenance practices that are involve with the suggested course of action we offer. The other side of the issue is the unintentional incorrect suggestions offered by other hobbyist which often lead the original poster down a shotgunning style troubleshooting technigue trail instead of an organize, easy items first, troublshooting regimen.
In my first jeep restoration in 1971 I had been working as a mechanic for 6 years. It was a 1942 GPW. It took me 6 mos to locate someone else with one. I found a source for parts and manuals in Kansas City at American Auto Parts about a week after I got the jeep by asking around and getting directed to the old White Truck Parts guy in Shreveport, LA who used to be a jeep dealer years before. By 1986 when I was stationed in South Dakota I had this down pat by hoarding the addresses and phone numbers of at least 50 sources of parts and info as I started on my M38A1 project. I also had at least 20 or so catalogs related to the jeep.
So in short read as much as you can, especially well written restoration guides like the Moses Ludel series, and ask questions. For the rest of us we should try to insure we offer help and suggestions that are correct and cover all the bases. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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