Getting Oil Pressure On rebuilt Engine

madmike

Yesterday, I turned my engine over with the starter for a total of about two minutes, 30 seconds at a time, in an attempt to get oil pressure before starting the engine. Not seeing anything yet, I would like to know if I should expect to see something this soon or if maybe, as one person suggested, I may need to prime the pump. The dist. rotor is turning so I know I am engaged at the pump.

My recall is that I filled the body of the pump with white grease. But that was over a year ago and I can't recall what I had for dinner last night.

The gauge worked before rebuild. If I should have pressure, is there something else I can check? I also put one of the 5 quarts of oil in the oil filter canister when filling the crankcase. But that one quart did not fill it...or it bled off into the crankcase.

Mike (Camp Delta is getting further away) Sad

RICKG · Member Joined: Aug 31, 2010 Posts: 1741 Location: SO IDAHO

I primed my L-134 using an $8 hand pump and a length of tubing.
Took about 1/2 hr start to finish. I had no worries about starting
my rebuilt engine after that. Heres the post..
http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5892&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=prime
Mike, dont let pushing too hard for Camp Delta take the fun out of
your project.. Wink

_________________
keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a

madmike · Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:04 pm Post subject:

Thanks Rick. That is a good referral and I happen to have one of those pumps in a gear oil bottle. It appears that a length of tubing will be needed to get deep enough into the pan to pick up oil. I imagine the tubing should be fastened with a clamp to keep from losing it in the pan. Any idea how long of a piece you used?

Also, is there clearance on an A1 to remove the pump when the engine is in place if that becomes desirable or necessary? I know I can drop it because I just did that trying to clock the distributor but I did not try to remove it.

RICKG · Member Joined: Aug 31, 2010 Posts: 1741 Location: SO IDAHO

For the length of the "Drop Tubing" i just threw a tape on the oil fill tube
and down aways down the pan knowing that as long as the tube was
2 or 3 inches in oil it would pick-up. As for pulling the F-134
oil pump w/engine
in frame i couldnt say (im runnin a L-134) but when i reclocked
my pump and installed a missing cover gasket i dropped the exhaust
downtube and it seemed there was a lot of clearance.
_________________
keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a

RICKG · Member Joined: Aug 31, 2010 Posts: 1741 Location: SO IDAHO

I remember now that i asked the oilpump removal question here..
http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7148&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=pump
_________________
keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a

madmike · Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject:

With the referrals Rick sent I looked on my F block and see a couple plugs that appear to be oil galley plugs. One is between the oil pump and the fuel pump and is a recessed plug. Another is between the oil pump and the back of the engine and is also the spot where the gas linkage spring attaches.

Since Wes made referrals to these plugs, I am hoping he is monitoring this forum and has a suggestion for the better spot to pressurize the system. The picture from 2011 discussion is for an L head and does not look quite the same. It may not matter which one but better to ask first. The forward plug can be accessed rather easily from the bottom.

Or anybody else with the knowledge can weigh in. I would like to get er done.

Thanks...Mike

wesk · Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject:

The oil galleries are the same on both blocks. The F134 taps next to the pressure gauge tap for the rocker shaft top oil. Either of the center pipe plugs will work.

Personally, I don't fool with it. I make sure I prelube by hand alll moving items and then I make sure the pump is full of oil and then I fire it up paying close attention to the oil pressure gauge. No positive indication of pressure in the first 15 to 30 seconds I shut em down and start looking for the problem.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

madmike · Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:41 pm Post subject:

Okay. Thanks Wes. When filling the pump with oil, do you or can you do it thru the pressure relief valve or do you pull the cover?

oilleaker1 · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:52 am Post subject:

The way I do it is : submerge the oil pump in a can of oil and turn the rotor and prime it full. Then reinstall in the same orientation. . Next I fill the oil filter cavity if it isn't a cuno type. Then I take a hand pump oil can and remove the oil pressure sender. I then pump the gallery full of oil until it trys to come back out. It literally sends oil up to the oil filter cavity also. Reinstall the sender. Pull the plugs and spin the engine with the starter. I get oil pressure right away on the gauge if all is proper. John

wesk · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:36 am Post subject:

No, you cannot completely fill the oil pump through the oil pressure relief valve. If you remove the spring & plunger and have a tight seal between the pump hose and the threaded opening & block off the relief port back to the sump you can get it full enough.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

madmike · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:30 am Post subject:

Okay. Today's work schedule will be to remove the pump and fill with oil and then remove the oil pressure line and put as much oil in as possible and also the filter. I will also be installing a borrowed distributor which was offered by an acquaintance that has an A1. Again, I will update this post as to what I get. For those that may be following the thread in preparation for their start up I advise you to do all this BEFORE adding all the oil. I am going to have to find a clean container to drain some out. I am inside a garage but the wind has been blowing pretty bad lately and it will be difficult to keep the oil free of contaminants. As always...appreciate the input.

BTW, I am using non-detergent oil and Lucas oil additive based on recommendations from several mechanics in my area.

Mike (Living life, learning the hard way, one experience at a time) Shocked

madmike · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:06 pm Post subject:

The results are in. Well crap. there are no results. I dropped the oil pump, after first removing the horn switch was in the way, and the pump dropped out. I could only get it out from below. I noticed I had remembered to fill it with white grease because it was still there. No sign of oil. Filled the pump and reinstalled. Then disconnected the line to the oil pressure gauge and sent oil down the line until it appeared back in the filter canister. The lower lines along the block would have required much dismantling to get a line on one of them.

Sealed it all up and spun the engine and no sign of oil pressure on the gauge. I will be receiving a distributer part by mail tomorrow if the Post Office is good as their word and try to start the engine. Will look for pressure then as Wes suggested. Further to follow .

skyjeep50 · Member Joined: Feb 20, 2007 Posts: 606 Location: Illinois

I primed my rebuilt M38 engine by disconnecting the oil line at the Cuno oil filter (its right there at waist level at the front of the engine) and connecting to a garden-type pump sprayer modified with the correct pipe fittings. Put some oil in the sprayer, pump in a few psi and open the valve, let the oil flow for a bit then reconnect the line. Use the line that feeds the oil gallery not the front pully cover (although I put a little oil in there as well as filling the Cuno with oil). (And yes, I used a new sprayer - they are cheap.) Oil pressure built quickly after engine start-up. No problems. I also use the garden spayer to fill the trans and transfer case and have another dedicated as a pressure brake bleeder. The sprayers take the "pressure off" of these messy filling chores!
_________________
1951 M38

whydahdvr · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject:

Skyjeep: Pretty cool idea with the garden sprayer! Ingenuity.

wesk · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:23 pm Post subject:

Pressure pots are not all the same. The principal is simple but you must first determine if your application will tolerate air mixed with the fluid. In the case of the brake system the answer is no and any pressure pot fabricated for use there should include a diaphragm between the fluid and air to prevent a soft pedal. Weather your pressure is developed from a built in handpump or pressure from an air compressor it will work the same. A final note of caution is to make sure the rubbers both real and man made used in your contraptions will tolerate the fluids they will be exposed to. This is particularly true where the rubbers were meant to be used only with one type fluid IE water, petroleum products, man made fluids (IE antifreeze and DOT brake fluids).
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php


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