how to check condition of an engine?

[southpw]

Going to look at a f-134 engine in the next day or 2 and was wondering what to check on it. I currently have a L-134 in my 52 m38 and want to replace it with original flathead.
the motor is out of Jeep and has been a spare that came with the Jeep thatthe seller bought.
if I pulled the plugs, should I be able to turn the crank pulley by hand on these motors?
will the 12v starter I have on the L-134 fit the new motor? Can I pull the flywheel from the L-134 and bolt it in the F-134 engine?
he also has a transmission and transfer case. All items never installed by seller so it is an "as-is" sale.
he won't go lower than $425 cdn. What are your opinions?
thanks

[southpw]

Here is a pic of engine for sale. Will any of my l-134 parts fit on this or am I looking at new parts for it all?

[OKCM38CDN]

I think you are backwards... The L-134 is the Flat head engine and the F-134 is the other one...

You just may have your terms wrong....
_________________
Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 201001205
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK

[wesk]

The engine in the photo is an L134. Also called a flathead engine since it has no valves in the head. They are all in the block. It is the correct engine for the M38.

The F134 is a hermaphrodite engine in that it is not a true flathead. It has the four exhaust valves in the block like a flathead or L134 and it has the four intakes in the head like an overhead valve engine. The F134 engine is correct for the M38A1 and M170.

Now with that sorted out you should call Surplus City Jeep Parts in Cal. and ask what they charge for core engines. That is what your selected for sale engine is worth if it is a rebuildable core. When an engine cannot be run to determine it's preliminary condition then you must assume it's value is not one of a known running engine.

You will need to remove the head, pan and side valve cover to make a determination that the engine is a rebuildable core or not.

Inspection checklist:

1-Inspect all exposed areas of the block & head for cracks. Pay close attention to the area around the distributor mounting boss and the top deck of the engine between cylinder bores and between bores and valves.

2-Turn crank by hand and observe all piston and valve movement for any irregularities.

3-Check for severe pitting type corrosion in cylinder bores and any machined surfaces.

4-Inspect intake/exhaust assembly for cracks and loose or broken studs.

5-Check block deck for pulled head bolt threads.

6-Check left side of block for severe erosion of exhaust ports and pulled exhaust mounting stud threads.

7-Check for loose rods, small and big ends.

8- remove rod caps one at a time and check for spun bearings or other crank rod journal damage.

9-Pull all three main caps and inspect crack main journals for any damage.

10-Check water pump and thermostat housing mounting surfaces for severe corrosion or erosion.

This is the minimum inspection. Of course any accessories also need to be inspected to determine value and they also were not operable then figure a max value of current exchange core value.

The block in the photo looks like an early 641087 casting. It is missing the rear steel plate that fits between the block and the bell housing and the flywheel. I can't see in this photo what type dowel bolts were used for the flywheel to crank bolts.This block was meant to use the early bell housing and 124 tooth flywheel and small bore (open nose) starter.

Your F134 was originally meant to use the late bell housing, the 129 tooth flywheel and large bore (closed nose) starter.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[southpw]

Oops. I stand corrected. I'm getting the L and F head mixed up lol.
I'm going to look at it tonight but likely won't take it as it's just a block with no accessories on it and would likely cost a fortune to buy all the external components and not even know how or if it runs.
But since my mounting flange on the casting of the transmission is broken I will hopefully be able to buy that for a decent price and maybe package in the transfer case as well.

these parts are tough to find north of the border.

[Yarder]

It's very important that you memorize the differences in the names. I've since made a little wallet card that I carry with me and pull out for reference.

>> I << ordered up a new head gasket for my F-134 engine when the clerk asked if that's the flat head. I promptly answered yes. Well, the L-134 Flathead head gasket matches up ALMOST exactly perfectly in my F-134 engine. Well, except for some of the water jackets. I discovered the problem when water started to pour out of the exhaust pipe.

And the same thing goes for a number of parts. Some are interchangeable and some are not.

[Xamon]

I have a second t90 transmission case if that is all you need. Wes can I am sure suggest a fair price.
Now I have talked to willys acres about getting an engine, a rebuildable one from them with everything attached was $900 plus a year ago. They are out north of Toronto.
_________________
Carievale Saskatchewan Canada
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album210&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[southpw]

Thanks guys. I didn'tgo look at that engine/trans/tcase yet. I found another trans/tcase that is in a truck behind the F-134 engine and plan to go see that tomorrow. Still not the right engine but seller has offered the package at a good price. And will throw in a bunch of other goodies(engine related) so may be stuck with a F-134 under the hood for a bit.
I want to concentrate on spending my funds on all the other restoration needs that my M38 has before dropping ~$1000 on an engine.
once it is up and running I will drop the proper engine in unless I find a steal for one locally before then.
Have plans to visit Brian in Acton as well once he returns from a trip to the States. I have a feeling he will be seeing a lot of me during my build.

[southpw]

So I picked up a L-134 engine from gent who sold me the M38 I'm working on. It was in hisM38 until he swapped in a Kubota diesel so I know it is a working engine. Now I have the task of trying to figure out what it originally came from. I would like to know for ease of part purchasing if I need things such as oil lines, etc.
The top has a date of 6•48 and casting 800376. I see no markings on the Oval beside thermostat housing nor on flat above housing. I cant gind any MC number. No markings on drivers side of block and these numbers on passenger side.

I also would like to use existing bellhousing I have from the F -134 and need to refund the info on how that is done as I understand bellhousing were different. I want to use this bell because Ialready have the 12v starter and flywheel/clutch which is in better condition than the flywheel that came with this flathead.
_________________
1952 M38 project
Brad

[wesk]

The casting number is a WWII MB block. It would be a chain drive cam block.

The Head casting number 800376 is an M38 head. The 6:48 is the compression ratio.

The right side top forward on that block has a serial pad:




_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[southpw]

Thanks Wes. I was hoping it was gear driven but expected that it is chain driven like you mentioned.
It looks like there may have been a stamp on the Oval section like you posted but after chipping the paint off it looks as though it was faint and since gone.
_________________
1952 M38 project
Brad

[wesk]

That WWII Block is worth more to a MB owner than the price of a correct 641087 casting for your M38 would cost. I'd keep the M38 head and list the engine minus the head on the WWII jeep web sites. Then shop for a 641087 casting. If your M38 is later than Mar/Apr 52 go with a late 641087 casting.



This requires the late bell housing.


Early


_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[southpw]

I have the late bellhousing now that was on the F - 134. This block was rebuilt recently (2years) so don't really want to replace it with an unknown engine but I will keep that in mind. I think I will just pull flywheel and clutch off of f-134 and put it on this engine for now. Also need to pull engine mount plate off old engine as someone has welded another piece of angle iron to L-134 engine to point the mount backwards and that is going to get in my way for the dual 4260 pump Iam rebuilding and putting in the place of the glass bowl fuel pump currently on the engine.
_________________
1952 M38 project
Brad

[wesk]

When you mix & match bells/blocks you need to use the adapter plate that belongs to the bell side. In your case you want the late adapter plate against the rear of the block.

You didn't post a full photo of your engine. I would make sure the left front mount ear faces forward. If you don't have timing marks on your engine pulley then now is the time to put them there. The late plate does not have the timing window access for the flywheel timing marks. Also check your engine's crank for the correct flywheel. There are three versions, 92, 122 0r 129 tooth. The F134 used the 129 tooth and the large frame starter that has two 1/2" mounting bolts. Also if you must switch flywheels be sure to note weather the two dowel bolts are 3/8" tapered or 1/2" straight shouldered.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[southpw]

Thank you so much. I was just looking at timing this engine and will not be disassembling anything until I get all that in order as well. I have not seen a timing mark on my crank pulley but will look closer now that I have seen what to look for.
As for the engine mount, the mount bends forward on the left side (as I want) and as does the one on the F-134. But Bubba welded a plate onto it so it can mount with ear facing rear.
This is on the "new to me" L-134




the F -134 mounting plate I will put on other engine so I have room for the dual pump.


_________________
1952 M38 project
Brad