tie rod ends

jasonm · Post by **jasonm** » Wed May 04, 2011 6:59 pm

Guys, I have been thinking about this now for about two days and am now down to about three hairs on my head,How do you measure the tie rod ends?
Some venders are asking wich ones you need 3/4 or 11/16 and the problem is i dont know!
I measured the threaded end and its a 5/8 rod, so thats not it, them measured the out side dia or the tub and thats 11/8 so again thats not it.
I have no idea as to what anyone is talking about when they say 3/4 or 11/16.
Can someone point me in the right direction.
Thanks Jason

hill · Post by **hill** » Wed May 04, 2011 7:09 pm

What they are talking about is the size of the thread end that screws into drag link tube that goes from left side to the right side.

jasonm · Post by **jasonm** » Wed May 04, 2011 8:07 pm

Ya thats what i thought too, but the measurment is 5/8 and is the same on all tie rods that i have come across, my slat grill and gpw also the m-38 are all the same.
Still confused, but thanks just the same,

Beacher425 · Post by **Beacher425** » Fri May 06, 2011 6:37 am

From what I understand:

The drag link is the tube from the pitman arm of the steering box to the bellcrank (the L shaped bracket at the front of the jeep). The bellcrank then connects to the center tie rod end. The tie rods are the rods that run between the from wheels. These tie rods can be thick walled as in M38 and M38a1 or thinner walled CJ. the thicker walled tie rods take the 3/4th inch (12/16th inch) tie rod ends and the thinner walled tie rods take the 11/16th inch tie rod ends. This meassurement is the diameter of the threaded part that screws into the tie rod. there is no tie rod end that screws into the drag link. Cheapest tie rod ends I have found are at odiron.com. If you want a full set of tie rods and ends and clamps, several places sell the thinner CJ version allready assembled. Other places have the thicker rods such as Army Jeep Parts,

ECVJeeps · Post by **ECVJeeps** » Fri May 06, 2011 6:50 am

I was following this thread last night and measured the tie rod ends from both a "fat" and "thin" tie rod and both threaded ends are the exact same.
I removed a tie rod from each and re-threaded them into the opposite tie rod.
The threaded parts are both 5/8" in dia.
I am with Jason here, is there a third tie rod that has a different inside dia?

jasonm · Post by **jasonm** » Sun May 08, 2011 8:44 am

So I take it know one has replaced the tie rod ends on there jeeps in 50 years...Must be alot of unsafe restored jeeps out there..lol

major519 · Post by **major519** » Sun May 08, 2011 9:42 am

I am following this thread myself as I was inspecting my M38A1 CDN3 yesterday and see that I need at least the center link so I will probably do a complete front end just to be safe. Considering that this is the wifes Jeep, its the least I can do to ensure a safe ride.

Post by **wesk** » Sun May 08, 2011 9:59 am

So I take it know one has replaced the tie rod ends on there jeeps in 50 years...Must be alot of unsafe restored jeeps out there..lol

From past posts over the last few years here many have changed their tie rod ends. In the majority of the cases they had the correct for their model jeep tie rod assemblies and when they ordered the correct for their model jeep parts they got what they needed.

I am sure there are a handful of folks that had the mix and match jeeps and had problems similar to yours. They are the few folks you are actually looking for. The rest have safely restored M38's they are driving.

jasonm · Post by **jasonm** » Sun May 08, 2011 6:32 pm

Ah but I didenty say that i had a mix and match, I asked how do you measure and where do you come up with 3/4 or 11/16 because when measured they all are 5/8 thats thin and thick tie rods.
Dont be so quick to think I am not restoring mine, I take great pride in doing it right.

ECVJeeps · Post by **ECVJeeps** » Sun May 08, 2011 7:34 pm

I for one am building a 52 M38 from a bunch of different jeeps. That being said, I expect my jeep to look correct with the correct parts in the correct places.
I have changed tie rods on other M38’s but have never found the difference between the two mentioned sizes either. I have found two different sized tie rods, but they both take the same tie rod end, 5/8” dia. Just where the 3/4” and the 11/16” come from must mean that there are not two but three different size tie rod ends out there.
Question: is there two or three size tie rod ends out there and if there is what is the correct size for the M38 or is there two size tie rods for the M38 and what are they?
I don’t think “a handful of folks” is a very accurate statement or even close to being accurate here.
Honestly I would think that there are more, way more mix and match jeeps out there than there are complete original non molested jeeps. It would just stand to reason that since 1951-52 the vast majority of these jeeps had someone modify them in some way. I just consider myself lucky enough to have salvaged enough correct parts over the years from a mix match of M38 jeeps to be able to put one together.
I wish I was as lucky as some to find one “complete and not altered” to restore.

Like Major519 I too would like to know where the two different tie rod sizes come from, there must be a third size tie rod out there that I have not found in the dozen or so M38’s that I have worked on yet.
Mr. Miller’s book mentions that the larger size tie rod is found on the M38A1’s and no mention of the M38. The M38A1 must have a larger size tie rod, and the M38’s must have had two different size tie rods using the same size tie rod end for both.
On a side note Mr. Miller’s book shows the routing of the radio power cable but there is no mention of the power cable guard or the mounting or location. This is just a side note.

I am sorry Jason, I don't have an answer for you and I cannot find an answer in Mr. Miller's book either.

Good Luck
Pat

DJ · Post by DJ » Sun May 08, 2011 8:37 pm

Sometimes instead of asking a question and hoping someone else does the searching for you,one needs to take the bull by the horn. Call a MV supplier,ask some questions of him,order a 11/16" end,check it for fit. I'm thinking you are a 1/16 " off on your measurement.

Post by **wesk** » Sun May 08, 2011 11:16 pm

Ok now. My reply was meant to set the playing field straight for what I perceived to be a low blow aimed towards most of out members restoration quality by Jason M. I tried to make a light hearted reply to make it clear that most of our members are in fact making safe restorations. I had no interest in Jason's restoration status or quality. My only interest was in defending the rest of the members restoration quality.

For all to know the best available answer to the original question is in a little "at your own home" research. The parts manuals for both the M38 and the M38A1 are free for you to download and use from this web site. If you will spend an hour or so with them you will learn a lot about tie rod ends.

jasonm · Post by **jasonm** » Mon May 09, 2011 4:57 am

Wesk, I am sorry that you take my post as a low blow,For that was not what it was meant as, I was just making point to the measurment offered and how they dont measure up.
I have used your search function on this site and still is open to interperation...
The forum header says technicial knowledge base not find it yourself and if you cant use the book..All i am doing is asking a question.
I have all manuals right here infront of me right from the museum in which I work and they do not tell you wich tie rod to use ,just a part number.
I am not looking for a part number, I would like to know which is correct the 3/4 or the 11/16...But the problem is when measured they all come in at 5/8.
Now if I am doing this wrong tell me, dont tell me to go read a manual or use the search function.
If there is no answer then say we dont know..I will take that with the understanding that there is no answer.
Jason

major519 · Post by **major519** » Mon May 09, 2011 9:05 am

Just a guess here. 5/8 is smaller tahn 3/4, therefore it would be reasonable to say that the 3/4 ones are incorrect.
If you are measuring the major diameter of the thread at 5/8 it is likely an 11/16

Post by **wesk** » Mon May 09, 2011 9:18 am

The rod ends all have the same thread size. The tubes come in small and large outside diameters. I would suggest you ask this question to the vendor who told you there were 3/4" and 11/16" rod ends. We have no information here on different rod ends. We only have information on different tubes that use the same 5/8" threaded ends. We can only assume that vendor is referring to the tube outside diameters of 3/4" and 11/16" I can think of no other way to explain this.