getting ready to sell an M38...advice/opinions sought

MSW · Post by **MSW** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:02 pm

Hello all - A friend of mine has this 1952 M38 that her husband fully restored some years ago. She has asked that I help her to determine a realistic value for it, and also identify the best way to sell it. She has no access to the internet.

Anyway, I know a little about CJs, but not much about the military jeeps. I took a bunch of pictures of this one. I could probably take a video of it starting and running and post that also, but she says we would need to charge the battery first, and we haven't done that yet.

So I'll try to link the pictures here. Please feel free to ask any questions, but unfortunately, I really don't know much about the jeep other than it looks like a heck of a nice and thorough job on the restoration. I have posted a bunch of other info below, based on some questions that Wes Knettle sent to me.

This link should take you to the pictures of the jeep:

http://s1116.photobucket.com/albums/k57 ... 952%20M38/

Answers to Wes' questions:
I could not find an engine number. Maybe that got sanded down or filled with primer and paint when it was redone (?).

However, the serial number on the dash plate and the rear passenger wheel well do match.

US built
Dash and wheel well serial #65230
DA contract # DA-33-019-ORD-43
Branch of Service and country: Procurement, Depot Maintenance, and Ordinace Dept are listed on the tag
Data plates are fastened to a sub panel which is fastened to the dash
Hood #: 20941606 (I don't know if this is the original # or not, but I would guess that it probably is)
Engine casting #: 641087 L-W11A Ni-CR-N2
Number of bolts, rear flange of engine block: Looks like 10 bolts
4 freeze plugs on side of engine block
"TP 25" is painted on the fender above each wheel
Transfer case markings: WOW Div 15-18-15 124A (? maybe...having trouble reading my own writing!)
Front diff marking: W43/8 17038
Rear diff marking: 345
Inter-vehicle cable plug on right fender: Yes
Generator part # 1117486 Serial # 56101(? hard to see)
Regulator part # 178656 Serial #62018
Distributor: Auto Lite
Starter part # Axs 1851 (? I think)
Has ammeter
Oil pressure gauge = 0-60PSI
Rubber covered horn button (seems to me)
Fording kit knob on dash, so probably has fording kit
No PTO or winch
Grease zerk on rear drive shaft front yoke assembly is at front end of yoke's splined sleeve
Leaf Spring count front = 9
Leaf Spring count rear = 11
Jeep logo on front of passenger tool box = yes
Passenger tool box has louvers
Front shackles match the rear ones
Steering wheel rim has ringed grooves in it.
Oil Filter is stamped with : Military Standard
Lift ring on tool box door is round
lift ring on tool box is revoving latch with a 90 degree pin.

OK, We are going to get ready to put this up for sale soon. Please ask any other questions that you think are relevant or please provide any comments that may be helpful.

Thanks!!
-Mike

Post by **wesk** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:01 pm

Hello Mike,

I wouldn't venture a value until you clean her up, service her up and drive it. Looks alone will only get you to $5 or $6 thousand, You'll need to ascertain the operating condition of the engine, drive train and electrical system and gather more detailed information on what type repairs and overhauls were actually done and by whom.

Some of your answers to the survey are curious:

could not find an engine number. Maybe that got sanded down or filled with primer and paint when it was redone (?).

Take a little scotch brite pad and brake cleaner to the flat above the water pumps and the number should show up. This is important 0part of establishing value.

Dash and wheel well serial #65230

This would be an April 52 jeep.

Hood #: 20941606 (I don't know if this is the original # or not, but I would guess that it probably is)

It would be a reasonable assumption.

Number of bolts, rear flange of engine block: Looks like 10 bolts
4 freeze plugs on side of engine block

This is odd. A late 10 bolt rear flange engine would not have 4 freeze plugs on the right side. We are only counting bolt holes in the left and right rear engine to bell housing flanges. Not the bolts holes in the steel adapter plate where it fastens to the lower part of the bell housing.

Fording kit knob on dash, so probably has fording kit
No PTO or winch

The dash fording knob would indicate the basic fording plumbing system that was installed by Willys is probably there. The fording kit is the snorkel and raised exhaust stack setup.

Leaf Spring count front = 9

Original front springs had 10 leafs.

Front shackles match the rear ones

This only occurred on the 1950 and early 51 units.

Phil4280 · Post by **Phil4280** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:00 am

Crikies if I knew I could import that into Australia with out any major dramers i would jump on such a nice jeep like that.
And to know it could be the only or one of a few M38's in the country.

Phil...

RimfireJim · Post by **RimfireJim** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:27 pm

wesk wrote:
Front shackles match the rear ones

This only occurred on the 1950 and early 51 units.

Wes,
Could you elaborate on this? The 1955 ORD 9 calls out the same shackles front and rear (WO-A513 & WO-A514, LH & RH thread, respectively). Do those supersede some earlier design(s)? Just curious, that's all.
Jim

willym38 · Post by **willym38** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:11 pm

Thats a nice M-38, if thats only worth 5-6 grand mines worth about $500 bucks!

Post by **wesk** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:19 pm

Jim,

The shackles I am referring to are early M38's used the same lifting shackle and bracket front and rear. The small ring was used on the front and did not lay over the front of the bumper but used the same mounting bracket used on the rear and both bolts went thru the frame rail only. Late use the larger front ring that laid over the bumper's front face and used a different mount bracket that fastened with two bolts to the front frame (one thru the frame and one thru the frame and bumper).

I am not referring to spring shackles.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:24 pm

willym38,
My reference to

$5 to $6 thousand on looks alone

meant just the pretty body was worth that. That body is only half the restoration. The other half comes from the $5 or $6 thousand spent on overhauling the engine, carb, fuel pump, generator, starter, distributor, tranny, transfer, brake system, drive shafts, axles and electrical wiring. A pretty body that doesn't start, run, drive and stop well is not worth much more than what I posted.

RimfireJim · Post by **RimfireJim** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:27 am

wesk wrote: The shackles I am referring to are early M38's used the same lifting shackle and bracket front and rear.

Doh! I realized that later, and should have earlier. Thanks for clarifying.

And, yup, I know all about that $5-6k into the chassis! What I keep telling myself is that if I had started with a different Jeep, I wouldn't know what kind of shape it was in either until I had torn it down as much as I have unless there was good, reliable documentation of what had been done to it. One of my favorite quotes I've found searching the web for Jeep info is:
"The axle photographed here was supposedly professionally rebuilt but was never installed afterwards. It passed through several owners before I purchased it. From what I can gather, the "Rebuild" consisted of walking past while holding a manual. I'm not even sure the mechanic actually walked past. He might have stood in another room and thought about a rebuild, hoping some of it would rub off on the axle.", from
http://www.vernco.com/FrontAxle/ Other good reading there, too.

MSW · Post by **MSW** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:14 am

Thank you for the nice comments and all the feedback! I am meeting the adult son of the lady who owns the jeep today, so i will get his opinion on how he wants to move forward.

Wes - I may have miscounted the leafs...I'll doublecheck that. I'm pretty sure he restored it with the right leaf springs. From what I can see (his jeep and other things around his house) he was a very detail-oriented and thorough person.

Also, I was referrring to the spring shackles when I said front and rear matched. I'll get some more pictures of what is actually there.

I'm not sure which bolts to count on the rear of the engine, so I can take some pics of that too.

There is no snorkel or raised exhaust on the jeep.

Thanks again and I'll be in touch!