Nice set of front spring but not correct for M38

Post by **wesk** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:39 am

These are on ebay: I sent seller a message on what real front M38 springs are.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300807474237?it ... m=&vxp=mtr

chrisk · Post by **chrisk** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:08 am

Good information, if you protect another for a bad buy.

Xamon · Post by **Xamon** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:53 am

Definatly not the right springs, only 8 leafs, can't remember if front is ten or eleven but those are not even close. Any idea what they are for?

Post by **wesk** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 am

I counted 9 leaves on them. That real short leaf at the bottom is also counted. The M38 front uses ten. In your TM 9-8012 the first section of each chapter in System Description you will find this data. The MB used 8 in front originally and they were 36 1/4" eye to eye.

daleric · Post by **daleric** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:37 pm

There is two bids on them already and there has been no attempt to correct the description.

I must admit to being somewhat surprised. I have bought some things from this guy. He usually tries to do the right thing and he definitely has enough knowledge of the M38 to know better.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:47 pm

And he had my message with the correction two days ago.

DJ · Post by DJ » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:32 pm

Here is the reply I got from them,

"They are out of a Ft Benning auction in the late 50's. There
were two pallets of them. Of the tags that survived the long term storage
the only one readable said assy, spring, front, one each G740. I have sever
big dealers trying to buy both pallets from me. They obviously know what
they are. "

Post by **wesk** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:45 pm

Don't forget that he and the dealers both know that items received for stock by the military that were found to be incorrect or did not conform were quickly sent to the nearest DRMO for unloading on John Q. Public. I notice he doesn't show any of the questions that are getting asked nor does he offer any part numbers. That certainly leaves a lot of doubt on the integrity of the seller!

ECVJeeps · Post by **ECVJeeps** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:58 am

I just recieved a reply to the front springs listed on EBay.

Dear pcn_jsn,

Just so all you M38 guys know. The M38 went with a 9 leaf front spring
in AUGUST 1951. This was due to the halt on the instilation of the
early Garwood winches. The Ramsey model 50 was not near the weight of
the Garwood and didn't require a 10th leaf. So I am off a wopping
1/4" on my ROUGH measurment big deal. I think you are all big boys and can understand that.
I would apreaciate if you know it alls on G503 Would do your reasearch
yourself and quit jumping on the band wagon with the so called experts
on there. Running a small business down like mine in this economy is
very sorry and starting rumors is even worse. If you want to attack
someone for the fun of it find another person to pick on. I know what I have, where it
came from and it's history. pcn_jsn, I am not attacking you but had to
use your question to post an update on the listing because time and
ebay will not allow me to change or add to my discription. I thank you
for your understanding and hope no offence was taken. Thanks, Matt

-wcfr4

Post by **wesk** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:10 am

That's interesting.

I see no updates or listing of our questions on the auction listing.

The only Garwood used was on a pilot model M38 in April of 1950. All production M38's left Willys with 10 leaf springs and all production winch M38's left with the Ramsey. All ORD 7, 8's and 9's list 10 leaf as well.

I believe he has two pallets of Army rejected springs and I see no attempt here to substantiate or prove the existance of a 9 leaf option.

daleric · Post by **daleric** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:10 pm

That's a hoot. Chewed your rear and then had the gozongas to say he
hoped you didn't take it personally?? As Wes said, I just checked the listing
and NO update with your question or anybody else's either. Oh well, I'll mark him off my list of reputable vendors.

Richard

ECVJeeps wrote:I just recieved a reply to the front springs listed on EBay.

Dear pcn_jsn,

Just so all you M38 guys know. The M38 went with a 9 leaf front spring
in AUGUST 1951. This was due to the halt on the instilation of the
early Garwood winches. The Ramsey model 50 was not near the weight of
the Garwood and didn't require a 10th leaf. So I am off a wopping
1/4" on my ROUGH measurment big deal. I think you are all big boys and can understand that.
I would apreaciate if you know it alls on G503 Would do your reasearch
yourself and quit jumping on the band wagon with the so called experts
on there. Running a small business down like mine in this economy is
very sorry and starting rumors is even worse. If you want to attack
someone for the fun of it find another person to pick on. I know what I have, where it
came from and it's history. pcn_jsn, I am not attacking you but had to
use your question to post an update on the listing because time and
ebay will not allow me to change or add to my discription. I thank you
for your understanding and hope no offence was taken. Thanks, Matt

-wcfr4

Post by **wesk** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:02 pm

I wouldn't give up on him yet. I have purchased parts from him in the past and they were ok and he was ok to deal with.

I get the feeling he's allowed himself to get peeved and a dealer should refrain from letting that happen until it becomes the last resort.

It appears he is stubborn and refuses to acknowledge that 10 and not 9 is correct for factory M38's and who knows, those pallets may have been setting out in the yard for over 40 years and perhaps someone 40 years ago put the G740 note on them because that was his best guess.

I have researched all of my 41 to 70 parts manuals both civvy and military and the universal jeeps show no use of 9 leaf springs in the front. The only jeep I found with a 9 leaf front was the 4x4 station wagon of the 50's/60's.
There are several with 9 leaf rears but they are 10" longer or so.

The springs he is selling may fit a M38 just fine depending on the pivot bushing ID and would probably make a suitable sub for a driver or motor pool class M38.

RICKG · Post by **RICKG** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:11 pm

He's got more- check out his comment about us
"armchair jeep quarterbacks" in the description

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Willys-Jeep-M38 ... 9a&vxp=mtr

Post by **wesk** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:44 pm

Not surprising. I wonder what publication or passageway he pulled that part number from? I can't find any Willys catalog reference or M38A1 related ordnance catalog reference for it. I can also not find any M38A1 , CJ5 or CJ6 catalog that list any 11 leaf front spring. All the guy needs to do to get "we ignorant arm chair quarterbacks" off his case is list the item as a substitute part or clearly ID it as a non-factory original installation spring set. It would help if he posted some evidence to his part number claims as well. That crudely done number could have been scribbled on there with a paint brush by some private at a DRMO in the 60's who was told to put some number on each stack they were processing.

The number he posted shows up associated with one other 7 digit number and two NSN's but neither ID's the end item they went on but both ID AM General as the manufacturer. This would be a mid 70's or later production spring by AM General and may have been contracted to a different spec from the original M38A1 front spring and accepted as a substitute during that period.