Gear whine

Post by **wesk** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:02 am

Not only should yours be keyed but that little collar at the short end that covers the end of the splines should be threaded as well and not snap on type shown in the photos of the civilian shafts.

artificer · Post by **artificer** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:31 pm

Way back in this thread someone mentioned whine [more grumble] noise progressively getting less as one went up in gears [unless I'm mistaken].
This is indicative of cluster gear & shaft wear.
A consistent whine is associated with the intermediate shaft & gear in the transfer case.
It is somewhat normal, unless exaggerated.
http://www.advanceadapters.com/categori ... -kits/159/
I have used this mod a few times & it reduces noise when used with new parts & adjusted properly.
The nut on the back of the transfer case needs to be around 200#lb.
As Wes posted drive shafts must be phased/timed as shown in his first picture.

Xamon · Post by **Xamon** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:55 pm

yes keyed and screw on caps the yokes don't align though. Just a particular shaft set I guess.

artificer · Post by **artificer** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:27 pm

Just a particular shaft set I guess.

No....
If the cap screws off, remove it & re-index internal & external splines so the shaft is in phase [like the diagram].

If the spines on the drive shaft & slip joint are keyed [ie only go together 1 way, due to a spline missing on both parts] & the ends are not aligned or in phase as shown in the picture, the spline has been welded to the driveshaft incorrectly. This will cause a continual vibration & can damage internal transmission components.

Deadguy · Post by **Deadguy** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:25 am

You know, by pure coincidence, I was just looking at that exact kit! I don't know if my intermediate pin is 1 1/4" or 1 1/8" tho. Novak sold me a rebuilt Dana 18, so I'm not sure of the year. I emailed them to ask a few hours ago, but they have a bad habit of taking forever to respond.
Seeing as to how it is rebuilt new, it shouldn't have much wear, but they have done plenty wrong so far. I read somewhere that if the gears wear even a little bit, it increases the whine. I did drive almost 200 miles with an overfilled transfer case, so the it might have some unusual wear, especially the bearing.

artificer · Post by **artificer** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:34 am

Deadguy wrote:....I was just looking at that exact kit!....I read somewhere that if the gears wear even a little bit, it increases the whine. I did drive almost 200 miles with an overfilled transfer case, so the it might have some unusual wear, especially the bearing.

Kit is available in both dimensions....overfill will not change/alter wear @ all.

Post by **wesk** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:51 am

Dan,
It's not a good idea to go by year on the D18. Go by a dimension check with your ruler.

Measure the diameter of the shaft indicated with the red arrow.

Deadguy · Post by **Deadguy** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:33 am

Thanks again Wes. Is this your vehicle? How do you get and keep it so clean? The curse of having a single daily driver!

Post by **wesk** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:11 am

Is this your vehicle?

No. Mine are all drivers.

Deadguy · Post by **Deadguy** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:54 pm

I measured it edge to edge and it looks like 1 1/4". I didn't pull the shaft though, do I need to? Once I get the advance adapters kit, I need to remove the rear bolt and pound out the shaft from the front side of the transfercase? Is that correct?

Post by **wesk** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:06 pm

Actually the modified intermediate shaft kit is usually installed during the transfer case overhaul not after. It is a solution to the common whine of the transfer case. Albeit an expensive one in parts and labor. And you won't like doing it with the transfer in the jeep! Have you downloaded and read AA's instructions PDF?
http://www.advanceadapters.com/downloads/7160050.pdf

The whine is common and not a sign of trouble so why jump on this intermediate gear shaft mod band wagon when you haven't got your money's worth from the fresh overhaul you just got with that transfer case?

Here's a few links to give you a little better insight in what's available and what it takes for each.
http://www.earlycj5.net/forums/showthre ... conversion

http://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/sho ... fb1ae3cfd8

Deadguy · Post by **Deadguy** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:27 am

Ok Wes, I read the forum posts and I see your point. I don't have the tools to machine the gear, and wouldn't trust that I have the know how if I did. With makes it very costly, especially to "fix" something that isn't really broken.
I will say, however, that the gear whine is decently loud, louder than it was before, and you have to be even louder to talk to the passenger sitting right next to you. I have not had a jeep with a Dana 18 before, so I can't diagnose it with any certainty, but when I'm up to 45 it sounds like when I rev an engine real high. Only it's the gear box. I'm used to something that is running that high being near the breaking point.
I have done a bit of research, and the Dana 20 (which both of my CJs had) is supposed to be much quieter, and both of my previous Jeeps made far less noise.

Post by **wesk** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:14 am

You said it yourself:

I have not had a jeep with a Dana 18 before, so I can't diagnose it with any certainty

Until you climb in another couple of jeeps with D18's and drive them your version of loud may actually be just fine or even quieter. Every pre-1972 jeep I have owned since 1972 has howled and I have had to shout over it to my passenger above 45 MPH especially in the winter with the top of the colder heavier air which makes things seem louder.

I have done a bit of research

The research you need to do is with D18's not 20's and newer.

You will not convince us it's too loud until you offer a scientific comparison to several other D18 jeeps in your area equipped the same as yours.

Deadguy · Post by **Deadguy** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:21 am

I did the research on Dana 18s. Some say they aren't loud at all. Most say they are. Comparison down in Austin, Texas where I used to live would have been easy. I don't know anyone up here in Philadelphia that has a jeep that old.

Post by **wesk** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:43 am

Well then the final choice is yours.

1-Find a couple of D18 jeeps in your area and compare. There are literally several hundred within a hundred miles of you. You just need to get up on several jeep boards and announce you need a ride to make noise comparisons. Visit with the dozen MV clubs in your area.

2-Throw a lot of money and time at something that is probably quite normal.

In summary of what has been offered to you in these posts:

1-The only real way to eliminate the annoying but not damaging noise is to machine the intermediate gear for tapered roller bearings.

2-Jeeps howl louder when tops are installed.

3-The howl becomes louder in the heavier colder air of winter.

4-Gear lubricant viscosity can change the level of the noise.