Dating M38A1

kenheydon · Post by **kenheydon** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:01 pm

Hello, I am new to the forum and am in the UK.
I have just acquired a M38A1 and am trying to date it. The jeep is a high quality, body off, nut & bolt restoration. There is no history at all. It came into the UK in 1982.
It is definitely a 1953 model year as it has the later clipped battery cover, later grill & later front fenders & seam detail.
It has new info plates on the dash which have obviously been recently stamped with del date of 10/52. You would hope this is copied from the original plates but you never Know !
Is is possible to have a 53 MY delivered in 10/52 ?
Behind the passenger seat is the Willys Toledo plate with serial number 14272, this number has also been reproduced on the new dash plates under the grab bar but at least they match.

I think Willys Toledo made these from 1952 - 57..........can anyone identify the year of manufacture for me ?
It has the NEKAF small city lights on the front grill but it does NOT have the extra front / side / rear indicators that NEKAF usually fitted. They may have just been removed though.
It is painted & marked U.S Army A 4272 and is marked 2BG 532APH A-4......but I have seen this designation on another website so I think it has probably just been copied.

Can you help with year of manufacture and any other information as to where it went. I suspect it went to Netherlands but not sure.
On the right side is a blue shield with white star and an Indians head, like the Indian motor cycle logo, do you know what his might be ?
I can send photos.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:12 pm

Welcome Ken. As I said in my email the possibilities are large.

MD14272 is a Jun/Jul 1952 serial number. If that tub and frame are original to each other you have a Jun/Jul 1952 M38A1. The front sheetmetal is easily switched as the result of an accident repair. The key to your date of manufacture is your tub & frame.

kenheydon · Post by **kenheydon** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:43 pm

Thanks for helping.......it is the same as the 1963 frame !
So a 52 serial number with 10/52 delivery date, 53 on tinware but now with a 1963 chassis.
All interesting stuff but there must be thousands that have interchanged bodies - chassis - engines ?

Post by **wesk** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:55 pm

I would then assume the tub is not original to your jeep. Or the patent plate on the tub's right wheel house is not original to your jeep. Exactly what year and serial number are listed on the owner's papers for your jeep?

kenheydon · Post by **kenheydon** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:31 pm

I have spent a while researching this and I think it is a collection of parts.
The serial number is July 52 - Delivery date Oct 52 - front end tin ware is 53 onward, and at some time it has had a donor chassis from 63 on. It is listed as Dec 60 on the papers but that cant be proven either, the body would be right but not the chassis. So in conclusion the serial number plate - body - chassis all don't match......and the Dec 60 date on the UK paperwork was just a guess.
It's all part of the fun.
I hope the photos came through.
All the best for now,
Ken - England.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:21 pm

An original dash serial plate with MD14272 would have had a delivery date Jun/Jul 52 not October. So if your dash plate which clearly looks like a repop replacement was stamped with MD14272 and had a delivery date of 10-52 stamped then the fellow doing the stamping was mis-informed.

Yes the photos I have downloaded. She is still a very well done restoration. Good looking jeep.

Nic · Post by **Nic** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:17 am

Hi Guys

Ken check your left hand front outside edge chassis rail, it should have an MD xxxxxx No. stamped on there just below the grill. I think all the NEKAF jeeps had the serial No. located in this area.

It may help to tie a few loose ends up.

Regards

Nic

kenheydon · Post by **kenheydon** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:14 pm

Hi Wes, many thanks.....not sure if I will ever know for sure, it is possible is is a 63 on 63 chassis and someone somehow acquired the Willys patent plate and screwed it onto the tub. Your info is helping and I have more to do.
Nic, I will check tomorrow and update what I find.
Best wishes,
Ken.

Post by **wesk** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:57 pm

I do not think the tub is any newer than 58. Post a photo of the passenger side seat area with the seat tilted forward and the camera angle from the driver's side.

The 63 in the photo does not establish the frame's introduction year. I suspect that third series frame was introduced around 1955/58.

kenheydon · Post by **kenheydon** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:32 pm

Hi Nic & Wes.
I checked the chassis today as explained by Nic & to my surprise the chassis is stamped with a matching serial number MD14272, it is quite faint and the stamping matches other stamping around the jeep.
Wes I have completed the survey so there are now a lot more serial numbers from various parts of the Jeep. If you have any time to have a look I would be grateful. I am sure the date declared to UK authorities of 12/60 is wrong.
The serial number which is on the Willys plate and chassis match.....maybe the engine casting number or the firewall number will assist ?
Currently my best guess is 52 - 57.
Many thanks,
Ken.

Post by **wesk** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:45 pm

Hello Ken,
I reviewed your survey form and made many comments on it and returned a copy to you. I have reached the conclusion that your jeep was assembled from various parts sources and then stamped with the serial MD14272 which was probably done to match some existing title paperwork.

kenheydon · Post by **kenheydon** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:16 am

Dear All,
I am slowly making progress with this having found the original heavily corroded patent tag. This has the 57144 prefix so I now know for sure that the vehicle was in fact a NEKAF Jeep. With the information supplied so far by Wes, we can pretty much tie it down to 1957/58 on a series 3 chassis so it looks like its the right tub and chassis backed up by the original patent tag and chassis number on the front left side. I have been on the NEKAF Yahoo group and have found serial numbers several hundred either side of mine all in 1957. There is little doubt that mine is also a 1957. The file I found was a comprehensive Excel spreadsheet of Jeeps owned by members of the NEKAF Yahoo group. I now need to find an official serial number list for the UK Authorities to prove the month in 1957 that it was built. Can anyone direct me to an official NEKAF serial number data base or list?
Thanks again for all the help
Best Wishes
Ken.

NEKAF4EVER · Post by **NEKAF4EVER** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:12 pm

According to my Nekaf-records your M38A1 is a 1957 Nekaf

MD14248 1957 KX-55-27
MD14272 19## to UK
MD14277 1957 KX-55-04 to UK
MD14279 1957 KX-55-03

Harold