What is this Frame From...........?

theduke · Post by **theduke** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:20 pm

My guess is m38 or cj.....Neither seem exactly correct but going from what I've read lately...Heres what I've found.

Besides being bent ,twisted ,rusty ,& growing a nice coat of moss. Below are the points of interest that I think will help ID this Frame.

1...evidence of battery box torched off.

2...lack of a body mount in gas tank area.

3...bell crank on frame.

4...But it has a front Center body mount?

5...44 rear with small holes on top of axle tube on both sides just inboard of flange. Gears are toast but wrong ratio for my m38a1 anyway.

6...27 Front axle with 4.27's....2 bolt info tag on front cover, pass side.

7...Civillian looking shackles?

8...parking brake cable bolted to drivers side of skid plate. I do still have the T case & it has the small diameter parking brake drum/shell that used External bands...I think. Tiny diameter 5"? and about 3"+ front to rear The trans got tossed as it was opened up and toasted.Full of water etc.
From what I recall it was super tiny and did not match up to anything else I or dad has.

9...Frame is boxed to master cyl.
And the pics

We'll start with these

I don't want to dump 24 pics here but I have many more of all angles and brackets.

Dan in Oregon

My best Bubba treasure pic.....He coulda left me a little more wire to work with.
Its all fixed now and back to stock with twist of my own added!

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:02 pm

Hello Dan,
Two things I see right off. Front crossmember is not round like
the MB, M38 and CJ2a and 3a. Also, the inside frame forward of the crossmember to the bumper mounts are not boxed like the M38.
No machine gun bracket, and is that mount on the front crossmember
at center for the fixed front grille on the late M38a1 frame?

theduke · Post by **theduke** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:24 pm

4x4M38 wrote:Hello Dan,
Two things I see right off. Front crossmember is not round like
the MB, M38 and CJ2a and 3a. Also, the inside frame forward of the crossmember to the bumper mounts are not boxed like the M38.
No machine gun bracket, and is that mount on the front crossmember
at center for the fixed front grille on the late M38a1 frame?

Here is another shot of crossmember.

I've had this frame for years as it was part of a package that included a couple GPW's.

It did not match those though.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:07 am

Can't tell from the pics for sure but it looks like there is a
reinforcement inside the front frame rails for the winch mount
and craggy cut off steel where someone may have cut out the boxing.

Look for evidence of the gun mount being removed and a couple
of other items and I think you have a second or third generation
M38a1 frame.

theduke · Post by **theduke** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:33 am

4x4M38 wrote:Can't tell from the pics for sure but it looks like there is a
reinforcement inside the front frame rails for the winch mount
and craggy cut off steel where someone may have cut out the boxing.

Look for evidence of the gun mount being removed and a couple
of other items and I think you have a second or third generation
M38a1 frame.

No Gun Mount plate.
The Shackles are wrong for a M38a1 I believe as well as being on the wrong end of the front springs.
There was a plate welded accross the front frame rails thats been torched off.
Bumpers are/were rivited to frame.
No Ser.# on top of front frame sections.....wasn't that a cj thing?

couple more pics of front frame areas

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:47 pm

Dan,
Several decent M38A1 frame photos on the site including Wes' photos.

There were three variations, but all had the bumper bolted to the front frame rails as were the top lifting shackle mounts. I do not see the hole in the top frame rail for the back lifting shackle mount bolt. The lack of the two small holes goes along with the assumption of a later A1 frame or CJ frame where the front grille is attached with a single mount in the center versus hinges on the top frame rails. The "reinforcement" I was seeing looks to be something "Bubba" tacked under the top frame rail to support whatever he had bolted or welded to that plate connecting the two frame rails, that has been torched off.

Probably the mother of all winches.

I'd say in the end you've got a CJ5 frame that has been touched heavily by our friend Mr. B, and much so, o'er these long years.

Just my two cents.

Take care,

theduke · Post by **theduke** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:21 pm

Found a serial # 207157 on the RR frame arch just forward of rear axle.

Safe to assume its CJ...but what year?

Looking to use this rear axle as a doner /proper replacement for my m38a1.