Leatherette in M38

[4x4M38]

Here is a link to some information on Operation Longhorn
in Lampasas County, Texas in 1952.

http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=179142

The sixth photo down shows an M38 with what appears to be
leatherette covers. I was trying to identify the M38 versus an
early A1 then noticed the canvas cover on the rifle holder
mounted on the windshield.

The A1 did not mount the rifle holder on the windshield
so it is an M38.

According to other articles the 82nd Airborne was the Agressor
during these war games, so this is apparently an 82nd AB M38
in 1952 with leatherette seat covers.

There are more photos and a video has recently surfaced on the
Net I have not watched yet.

[wesk]

This is an old topic. The leatherette seats were one of the bragging points heavily commented on in mid 1952 when they appeared on the M38A1.

It is very possible the Army used leatherette covers in the supply system for the new M38A1 on M38's needing seat covers. It is also possible the last few m38's off the line in June 52 used the M38A1 covers as well. But all of this has been discussed before.


What about the covers in this photo make you so positive they are vinyl?

All the jeep photos posted in that G503 thread are M38's.

[RonD2]

I, for one, like the Trojan "Marvin the Martian" headgear. Distinctive. Nifty. Beats the heck out of the Frenchy berets the Soldiers currently wear (what General thought that was a good idea? He's probably retired by now.). But that's just the Marine in me surfacing.....I've been known to wear an old school Pith Helmet during August. Yes, I know, you can pith in it --- but you can't shith in it.

Just to keep this post legal, I really really like the stencil on the top center inside of the windshield "This Veh(icle) cost $2373.55". Back then a dollar was really a dollar....steel was steel...and men were men.

I'd have to add some more numbers if I was going to mark mine that way today....

[4x4M38]

My impression is that I can see the simulated pebbling
or grain in the vinyl in this photo. Also, the material
appears to be shiny or certainly has more gloss than a
flat canvas material. The last thing is the material and
stitching particularly on the back and edges looks
different than the canvas covers I've seen on new
or nearly new jeeps, given of course the graininess and
lighting of the photos. Certainly the backs look different
than the replacement covers available today.

I know it's an old subject but I had not seen this particular
photo before so had not noticed the detail. The photo of early
M38's lined up for shipment definitely shows canvas. I don't
remember what the later shipment covers looked like.

That the A1's came with the new and improved covers is
documented. Switching over to leatherette near the end of
M38 production or possibly just installing the new stuff then
spec'd for the A1's makes sense.

I'm still trying to decide which to use. In this dry country
I'm wondering if the canvas would dry out faster.

There are a lot more if those photos on a Life magazine
website, and they can be purchased. Wonder if an actual
photo in hand would be clearer and if there is any interest
for purposes of documentation.

There were 115,000 troops in that operation. One
soldier observed an air dropped jeep that the parachute
released early, resulting in a hard landing. He said it bounced
50 feet in the air.

Wonder which one of us ended up with that one?

Take care,

[wesk]

Compare what you believe to be vinyl to the drivers wool uniform. The wool shirt is shinier than the seat cushion. I am thinking they are canvas and not vinyl.

Here's a 51 M38 from that same group of photos:



I think we are looking at very grainey photos.

[4x4M38]

We may be looking at poor images on the net
but these are Life Magazine photos,
which suggest the originals are probably
state of the art for the day.

That's why I was wondering about purchasing
a reproduction or two.

[Xamon]

not to flog the dead horse but the closer photo with the fella in the darker uniform the seats look like waxed canvas to me, just my two cents.

[skyjeep50]

Those seat covers look like canvas to me. Trying to tell the difference between a M38 and an M38A1? Look at the hood - the M38 has a flat hood, the M38A1 has a raised "streamlined" hood - a visible difference from a mile away!

[4x4M38]

Yes understand the hood differences Sky. One photo was close
cropped and you could not see anything forward but the top
of the windshield. And the canvas rifle cover on the windshield.

Look at the first photo Wes inserted up top. It looks like
pebbly material instead of canvas to me, but your mileage
may vary. Did the military wax canvas?

I'll look into purchasing one or more of these images if I can
find the right ones and can be assured they are better quality
than what we are looking at here.

Take care,

[wesk]

The date is a good indicator of which jeep. The M38A1 production started in July 52. The exercise was April 52.


Here's a shot with samples of the gun cover superimposed over the pass seat fabric.

[4x4M38]

You can see the gloss of the A1 cover easily. In the OL
photos many appear to have been taken on overcast days
offering little in the way of direct sunlight. You can just see some
glossiness on that 1911 holster.

The original backs were just covers that went over the springs
and padding and screwed to the frame, correct?

I think one of the vendors is selling one with a "pocket"
to slide the foam cushion into before attaching.

[RonD2]

That squared-away Soldier's holster and boots have been spit-shined. Well done, the gloss can still be seen on a moonless night. It's a lost art now. Has been for a number of years, maybe decades.

[4x4M38]

This is kind of fun. Second photo above shows M38
238xxxx. No fording intake hose bracket on the fender,
but the slave cable bracket is there with no cable or plug?

Note the OPFOR stencil on the hood under the windshield.