1952 M38 - T-90 transmission rebuild

jsnwalker · Post by **jsnwalker** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:54 pm

Ha, thanks for addition! I'll ensure I replace that bushing the first time I pull it apart.

oilleaker1 · Post by **oilleaker1** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:55 am

To add to the pilot bushing, check the fit of of the input shaft (main drive gear) into the bushing. It can somewhat close the ID when you tap or press the new bushing into the flywheel. Too tight a fit. You may need to rheem it out some with a adjustable rheemer. Many fellows have complained about the clutch not disengauging when the pedal is pushed down. The shaft is locked into the bushing. Guess what----------back apart again. You don't want that.

John

jsnwalker · Post by **jsnwalker** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:02 pm

Alright, I am just about done with the rebuild but ran into another problem related to the rear bearing, rear bearing spacer and the adapter plate. From the videos and manuals I have looked at, I slide the adapter plate onto the main shaft, then the bearing spacer and then pressed the bearing into place. I have always assumed that the spacer will fit into the adapter plate which will allow the bearing to sit fully into the groove, but my spacer and adapter plate will not slide together, even when tapped with a hammer. Because of that, the bearing will not sit into the groove in the adapter plate.

Is there something that I'm missing? The videos I was watching installed everything as I have done but the diagrams show the spacer and adapter installed in a different order.

The spacer is the one I pulled out of the tranny and there was a little bit of rust that I cleaned up. I'm guessing there might be a little bit more that is causing an interference fit, just curious if you guys see anything I don't.

oilleaker1 · Post by **oilleaker1** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:47 pm

Front to rear, small spacer, bearing, then adaptor plate. Then lock plate between the two shafts.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:46 pm

And yes, you have to have the case and the rear plate squeaky clean.
right down into the 90 degree corner. Just the slightest bit of junk will
prevent it from fitting down all the way into the case.

Use a round, sharp pointed instrument like an awl or scribe and get down
into that corner and make sure it's clean. Make sure the corners
of the plate are clean also. And without any burrs or nicks.

jsnwalker · Post by **jsnwalker** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:56 pm

So the plate does not slide onto the spacer, it gets smashed between the spacer and the bearing? And everything there except the spacer is new (main shaft, rear bearing, adapter plate, etc.) So all corners are squeaky clean.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:11 pm

Rick Stivers:
4gg: install the rear bearing spacer on the mainshaft.

4hh: install the rear bearing adapter with the bearing
onto the mainshaft. This is also a press fit.

jsnwalker · Post by **jsnwalker** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:25 pm

Yeah... newbie mistake. Looking at the video and reading my manuals which includes Stiver's instructions, I thought it was meaning that the bearing waspring press fit onto the shaft and the adapter plate was press fit onto the spacer like the video did.

I'll pull the bearing and switch those two pieces around!

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:09 pm

Trust me,
I'm a newbie too. Just finished rebuilding my first transmission and
now working on the transfer.

I bet I read Ricks instructions at least 50 times!

jsnwalker · Post by **jsnwalker** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:00 am

Alright, switched the plate and spacer around and pressed it back together and ended up binding everything together so tightly that it seized the rear bearing. Set it into the tranny anyway just to see if it all fit together now and the bearing and plate are spaced too far away from the tranny housing, about the width of the spacer.

Just called the guys at Kaiser Willys and they are saying that the adapter plate actually does slide over the spacer, it does not get compressed between bearing and spacer. I measured the OD of the spacer and the ID of the adapter plate and found the spacer is .012" larger than the adapter plate. I have no idea how that happened (tighter tolerances in today's production industry perhaps?) but I'm going to order a new spacer and try again.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:05 am

Can you use the one that came out or is that it? The takeout bearing
retainer should work as well because they did cone out together, right?

You didn't happen to let that shaft slip back a bit while assembling and let one
or more of your rollers fall out of alignment?

jsnwalker · Post by **jsnwalker** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:05 pm

The spacer I am using is the original that I pulled out of the tranny. It is one of the few parts that are not included in the small parts kit or the overhaul kit. I looked through everything I had and didn't see anything that would work.

I am certain I didn't have any issues with the shaft slipping back and the needle bearings falling out. I did have that issue at first and had the 14 needle bearings fall out but got it all put together and still had the gap issue.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:07 pm

Well the deal is yes the spacer has to fit in the bearing adapter.

Did those two come out together? I see the adapter is primered. Is there paint on the inside of the bore?

When assembled the sliding gear will come within a hair of the front of the bearing adapter. The fit of the bearing adapter, where it stops on the shaft as well as the thickness is just one of many of the determinig factors for the preload, and keeps the sliding gear from chewing into the front of the adapter.

The bearing may be just a slight fit onto the shaft or you may have to press it on. But it should pretty much run all the way into the recess of the bearing adapter and sit against the back face. The spacer fits between the front of the bearing and the shoulder on the shaft.

So it has to fit inside the bearing adapter.

I guess I'm confused why they don't fit if they came out together.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:10 pm

Ok, one more question.

When you received your parts did you compare everything you took off with everything you received?

Did your takeout rear bearing have a snap ring groove?

jsnwalker · Post by **jsnwalker** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:09 pm

That is where I am stuck as well, why the spacer won't fit into the new adapter plate. I believe I did run into someone'special article saying their spacer was around .011" oversized so it wouldn't fit into the adapter plate, but I can't find it again.

My bearing is a tight fit onto the shaft and it fits snuggly but fully into the adapter plate, the adapter plate fits snuggly but fully into the tranny housing and the spacer fits snuggly and sits right where it should on the shaft. I'm anxious to see if there will be a dimensional difference in spacers and if the new one will slide right into place in the adapter plate.

I did compare parts while I was unboxing the new parts and most everything seemed a perfect match. I never did take calipers to each piece but side by side or on top of each other, all looked good. However, I was sent the wrong washers that fit between the needle bearings in the cluster gear at first. That is the back of my mind about the adapter plate, but my money is still on the old spacer not fitting into all the new parts as it should.

And yes, the adapter plate has that coating everywhere including the center bore.