Original seat coverings on M38 and A1

BobW · Post by **BobW** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:51 pm

Hi,

What was the original covering material on your M-38 and M-38A1 seats?

Thanks

SgtV · Post by **SgtV** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:34 pm

The Original material was O.D. Leatherette Vinyl. Canvas covers were used as replacements when the Vinyl ones were no longer being made. Many of the M-Series vehicles originally had the Vinyl also. Pizzoferrato Enterprises (www.odcloth.com) sells the correct Leatherette Vinyl seat covers as well as the Canvas ones.

Jim VanVoorhis
51 M38

Post by **wesk** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:01 pm

I'd like to hear Keith Buckley on this one. I don't believe the original M38 seats were vinyl.

Here's the part numbers from both the early & late M38 ORD 9's & the Sep 56 M38A1 ORD 9.

left seat assy = (M38) 673578 (M38A1) 680156
Right seat assy = (M38) 673579 (M38A1) 673579
Rear seat assy = (M38) 673580 (M38A1) 673580

cushion front seats =(M38) 672000 (M38A1) 672000 (M38A1)This seat is
later changed for it's
seat back cushion
but no WO PN.
Cushion rear seat =(M38) 673586 (M38A1) 673586

BobW · Post by **BobW** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:51 pm

I think the actual seat cover without anything else is called "Trim" in the parts list. 672012 for the back and 672016 for the bottom.

BobW · Post by **BobW** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:02 pm

Anyone got what appears to be an original seat cover? I would love to hear from you!

Thanks

SgtV · Post by **SgtV** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:25 pm

If you think about how the M38 came into existance, it was lessons learned from WWII thats why it had plastic headlights, fording system and vinyl seats, amongst many other changes. Also the stock numbers that were listed on another post were for Cushion Assy's. i can tell you from experience on ordering parts in the service that on older models such as M543 wreckers we occasionally got in a vinyl seat that was in a really old box but had the same NSN number. Also in TM 9-8012 Jan 56 fig. 135 these are obviously vinyl seats.. I also have TM 9-804 Sep 50 but there is only one illustration of seats Fig's 2 & 3 but you really can't tell. the NSN on parts today hasn't changed we still get in older parts sometimes that do not interchange even though they have the same stock number.

Jim V
51 M38

usma41 · Post by **usma41** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:31 am

Vinyl seats, tops and just about anything came into play during the Vietnam war. Some of it was not even vinyl, it was better know as oil cloth. Since the M38 did play a roll in the early part of Vietnam I would venture to say they where modified for the vinyl. Before that they in no way had vinyl seat cover's.

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:14 am

On my seats I had vinyl coverd by canvas. The vinyl even had the hood number of the jeep the seat came off. Even though the vinyl is in rough shape I left it under my new canvas covers.

Post by **wesk** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:23 am

The harsh environment these OVER HALF CENTURY OLD jeeps served in would have made the survival of their original cloth of whatever type highly unlikely. My experience with 22 years in the military is the vehicles we were using had new coverings installed before they were 10 years old. With this in mind what we find still on 55 year old vehicles is not the best evidence of what was on them at the factory. For that subject the factory drawings swing the heaviest weight.

With that said, KEITH, WHERE ARE YOU?

As for manual photos a lot of them were based on the CJV35 and some were even based on the Cj2A and MB.

BobW · Post by **BobW** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:17 pm

I have been in contact with Keith and he doesn't have any information about the seat cover part numbers.

BobW · Post by **BobW** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:02 pm

I just found an interesting article in the May 1, 1952 Albuquerque Journal, quote included below. Check out the last paragraph. Too bad it doesn't mention what the M-38 seats were!

Army Jeep Adds Bit of Glamour

TOLEDO, O. (INS)-- Note to ex-GIs: That squat little vehicle in which you bounced around Europe and the Pacific area during World War II is getting a touch of glamour.
Yes your old friend the jeep getting a fashionable new look—though fashion isn't the reason for the trimmer figure and higher hood on the latest military model of the world-famed vehicle. "The military jeep was re-designed, with higher hood, to make room for a 20 per cent more powerful motor," Ward M. Canaday, president of Willys-Overland Motors Inc., explained. "The four-cylinder F-Head engine, a smaller version of the one in the company's new six-passenger sedan, delivers outstanding fuel economy with regular gas."
Like the model now in production, the latest version of the Army jeep will be a "seagoing" fighter too, he said. A waterproofed engine and electrical system, plus air intake and exhaust pipes which rise above the jeep like a submarine's snorkle tubes — enable it to run through salt or fresh water deep enough to completely submerge the engine
"The new military model will be roomier and more comfortable," Canaday added. "GIs who remember bumpy rides on the hard, canvas-covered seats of the World War II jeep will love the larger springs, new shock absorbers, and the soft plastic seats of the new jeep."

Post by **wesk** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:18 pm

Bob,
Have you CJV35 guys ever determined for sure what seat cover material your jeeps left Willys with?

BobW · Post by **BobW** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:42 am

Wes,

No, we don't know for sure yet. That is actually what I am trying to figure out here. The CJV35 used the same part numbers for the seat covers as the M38 and M38A1. I think it is safe to say that both leatherette and canvas shared that same part number. The real question is how did it leave the factory?

WillysMotors · Post by **WillysMotors** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:07 am

Message from Keith Buckley:

Wes,

W.O. Spec H-220 "Vinyl Coated Fabrics for Military Service" was issued on April 30th, 1951. (and updates again on May 19th 1952)

It basically gives the test procedures and properties required to make the seat material. " Suitable for use in deep spring, semi-deep flexing seats, flat seats with or without spring construction"

This was authored by Lyle C Calkins, Chief Chemist for Willys Overland.

This information was shared with Dave P. to assure the leatherette seat covers he produced were absolutely correct for the period.

Thus far I have been unable to determine their exact introduction date at the factory vs parts distribution.

We were able to determine that no MB's left the factory as leatherette, but there were leatherette MB seat cushions made in the Willys upholstery shop through the mid fifties for depot supply.

There is no hard proof for M38 or M38A1 when they were introduced.

I don't check this forum regularly since most of my Jeep data was stolen from me July 16th, 2006, Jeep research is 100x more difficult.

(I've recommended that Bob use leatherette on his CJV-35)

Post by **wesk** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:06 pm

The April 51 date (as the earliest known date for vinyl) leaves 1941 thru April 1951 most likely canvas. Unless we can find an earlier date to substantiate vinyl before April 1951. The MB vinyl seats at Willys could easily have been replacements on a new spares contract. What data is available for the CJ2 and CJ2A?

Bob, I noticed your 1952 ad announces the plastic seat covers as a new thing in the M38A1.

TOLEDO, O. (INS)-- Note to ex-GIs: That squat little vehicle in which you bounced around Europe and the Pacific area during World War II is getting a touch of glamour.
Yes your old friend the jeep getting a fashionable new look—though fashion isn't the reason for the trimmer figure and higher hood on the latest military model of the world-famed vehicle. "The military jeep was re-designed, with higher hood, to make room for a 20 per cent more powerful motor," Ward M. Canaday, president of Willys-Overland Motors Inc., explained. "The four-cylinder F-Head engine, a smaller version of the one in the company's new six-passenger sedan, delivers outstanding fuel economy with regular gas."
Like the model now in production, the latest version of the Army jeep will be a "seagoing" fighter too, he said. A waterproofed engine and electrical system, plus air intake and exhaust pipes which rise above the jeep like a submarine's snorkle tubes — enable it to run through salt or fresh water deep enough to completely submerge the engine
"The new military model will be roomier and more comfortable," Canaday added. "GIs who remember bumpy rides on the hard, canvas-covered seats of the World War II jeep will love the larger springs, new shock absorbers, and the soft plastic seats of the new jeep."